Reply to: Contractor Subsistence - Travel/Accommodation, etc.

[stek]

It is within the 'Fraudulent Document' section of the draft legislation, call HMRC and they will explain all.

That is now me finished with this one.

Eh? What u on?

[Alan @ BroomeAffinity]

Read that section again. For the fourth time. Still don't see what you do.

[BenDover]

I have read it - where's the bit about needing a signed declaration?

It is within the 'Fraudulent Document' section of the draft legislation, call HMRC and they will explain all.

That is now me finished with this one.

[stek]

I have attached a copy of the draft legislation earlier in the topic, happy reading.

I have read it - where's the bit about needing a signed declaration?

[Alan @ BroomeAffinity]

The attachment says that the worker may not claim only if they are subject to SDC. If not, they are specifically excluded. There is no requirement to prove it with a signed declaration from the end user. Just like now.

[BenDover]

Get it writing, post it here and we can discuss it. Everyone knows if you call HMRC ten times you'll get ten different answers.

I have attached a copy of the draft legislation earlier in the topic, happy reading.

[BenDover]

Isn't that like asking a turkey if they're up for Xmas, hardly an impartial interpreter of legislation in this area are they?

You are quoting current legislation and not the draft legislation, wait until the 23rd and all will become clear.

[stek]

Then you need to have a conversation with HMRC my friend, they say you do so just make the call.

Get it writing, post it here and we can discuss it. Everyone knows if you call HMRC ten times you'll get ten different answers.

[SlipTheJab]

Then you need to have a conversation with HMRC my friend, they say you do so just make the call.

Isn't that like asking a turkey if they're up for Xmas, hardly an impartial interpreter of legislation in this area are they?

[BenDover]

If you are operating outside IR35, you do not need letters from the agency or client confirming that you are not subject to SDC. The SDC test does not apply. That is the opposite of my understanding of what you said.

Then you need to have a conversation with HMRC my friend, they say you do so just make the call.

[mudskipper]

I think you are splitting hairs here, you tell me in the first instance I am wrong and then you post something stating exactly what I have said earlier in the post. The reference to the 5% is the splitting hairs part....

If you are operating outside IR35, you do not need letters from the agency or client confirming that you are not subject to SDC. The SDC test does not apply. That is the opposite of my understanding of what you said.

[BenDover]

From your document:

Personal Service companies and the intermediaries legislation (IR35)
Where a worker is supplied through a company to which the intermediaries legislation (Chapter 8
ITEPA – IR35) applies then the section will only apply to the extent that the worker falls within the
legislation and

• a Deemed Employment Payment is made, or
• a Deemed Employment Payment would have been made but for the fact that the worker

received remuneration as employment income.
In these circumstances it is not necessary to consider the test of supervision, direction or control




i.e. as has been stated by HMRC in the response to the consultation, the SDC test will not apply if you are operating via a limited company outside IR35.





If you're inside IR35, the 5% covers admin expenses. T&S is not allowed.

I think you are splitting hairs here, you tell me in the first instance I am wrong and then you post something stating exactly what I have said earlier in the post. The reference to the 5% is the splitting hairs part....

[SlipTheJab]

From your document:

Personal Service companies and the intermediaries legislation (IR35)
Where a worker is supplied through a company to which the intermediaries legislation (Chapter 8
ITEPA – IR35) applies then the section will only apply to the extent that the worker falls within the
legislation and

• a Deemed Employment Payment is made, or
• a Deemed Employment Payment would have been made but for the fact that the worker

received remuneration as employment income.
In these circumstances it is not necessary to consider the test of supervision, direction or control


i.e. as has been stated by HMRC in the response to the consultation, the SDC test will not apply if you are operating via a limited company outside IR35.



If you're inside IR35, the 5% covers admin expenses. T&S is not allowed.

+1 It seems too many people read what they want to see regardless of the facts in front of their eyes...

[mudskipper]

If you read my earlier post you will see that I stated that if you are inside IR35 you cannot claim (or only 5%) but if you are outside then you can claim as normal but you must have a document signed by the end user director as well as a director of the agency.

https://www.gov.uk/government/upload...t-guidance.pdf

From your document:

Personal Service companies and the intermediaries legislation (IR35)
Where a worker is supplied through a company to which the intermediaries legislation (Chapter 8
ITEPA – IR35) applies then the section will only apply to the extent that the worker falls within the
legislation and

• a Deemed Employment Payment is made, or
• a Deemed Employment Payment would have been made but for the fact that the worker

received remuneration as employment income.
In these circumstances it is not necessary to consider the test of supervision, direction or control


i.e. as has been stated by HMRC in the response to the consultation, the SDC test will not apply if you are operating via a limited company outside IR35.



If you're inside IR35, the 5% covers admin expenses. T&S is not allowed.

[BenDover]

A limited company contractor, operating outside IR35, is not considered to be an 'agency worker', so the legislation that you're quoting does not apply.

See p7. https://www.gov.uk/government/upload...s-guidance.pdf

The key elements required for someone to be an agency worker are:
• there is a contract (an employment contract or a contract to perform work
personally) between the worker and a TWA;
• that worker is temporarily supplied to a hirer by the TWA; and
• when working on assignment the worker is subject to the supervision and
direction of that hirer


AND
• the individual in question is not in a business on their own account
(where they have a business to business relationship with the hirer who
is a client or customer)

If you read my earlier post you will see that I stated that if you are inside IR35 you cannot claim (or only 5%) but if you are outside then you can claim as normal but you must have a document signed by the end user director as well as a director of the agency.

https://www.gov.uk/government/upload...t-guidance.pdf