Reply to: HMRC Task Forces rake in over £109m

[SpontaneousOrder]

What discourages investment is having to pay returns to shareholders

What discourages investment is a return on investors investments?!

[SueEllen]

All taxation at any level discourages investment (in time / effort / capital). So the fact of the matter is that to take your position literally would make everyone worse off, rather than better. Is it rational to cut your own nose off to spite your face?

There will always be some optimal line which is unlikely to be crossed. That *should* be zero taxation, but politicians are happy to trade standard of living for political power - up to a point at which it becomes less efficient. Happy cattle produce tastier meat.

Companies get tax relief for certain investments.

What discourages investment is having to pay returns to shareholders ( including pension funds) that have to be maintained for example Tescos and any Water company. ..

[SpontaneousOrder]

I agree with you - I don't see why companies should be able to pass things from country to country as they do.

All taxation at any level discourages investment (in time / effort / capital). So the fact of the matter is that to take your position literally would make everyone worse off, rather than better. Is it rational to cut your own nose off to spite your face?

There will always be some optimal line which is unlikely to be crossed. That *should* be zero taxation, but politicians are happy to trade standard of living for political power - up to a point at which it becomes less efficient. Happy cattle produce tastier meat.

[SueEllen]

That's HMRC - keep chasing the little guy and turn a blind eye to the giants. HMRC could get this 109m and much more by just taxing Facebook properly. Perhaps they are still too busy accepting dinners from Vodafone? Or forgiving Goldman Sachs enormous tax debts ?

Happy to be schmoozed by Vodaphone. Happy to let GS off tens of millions. Happy to see Facebook paying 4k CT. But if the corner shop sends its tax return in a fortight late, Grrrr! HMRC gets angry!

HMRC have been engaged in long drawn out court battles with the likes of Ford. In other words they do go after multinationals but due to the multinationals pockets the cases end up in Europe costing lots if HMRC lose.

It's cheaper to go after the smaller guys. Though not necessarily easier if the smaller guys have appropriate insurance.

[NibblyPig]

The public are dumb, we should never ask them anything.

I bet most people would have a grumble about google, starbucks etc. not paying any tax but would be very pleased they can get their boiler serviced cheaper for paying in cash

[Kelstar]

Hi, not sure if this is linked to new powers/software but I was subject to a compliance check by HMRC on my self assessment in the summer. Stressful and a bit of a hassle pulling out 100s of receipts (the year in question I travelled a lot for clients and billed them for the services).

IPSE plus member so Abbey Tax "looked after" my investigation and provided all the formal responses to HMRC along side input from my accountant.

No additional tax to pay just a lot of questions. Turns out this was triggered by a discrepancy between my P60 and SA.

[LondonManc]

I'm blaming HMRC and successive governments for pretending to frown upon tax "evoidance" for some, while actually running it as a business for others.

I agree with you - I don't see why companies should be able to pass things from country to country as they do.

[unixman]

Blame the game not the players. Just like the economic/benefits migrants we get. Not their fault that we've got a welcome mat out rather than barbed wire fences.

I'm blaming HMRC and successive governments for pretending to frown upon tax "evoidance" for some, while actually running it as a business for others.

[LondonManc]

Paying one tax makes it alright to "evoid" another? So that's alright then.

Blame the game not the players. Just like the economic/benefits migrants we get. Not their fault that we've got a welcome mat out rather than barbed wire fences.

[unixman]

You have to remember that Facetube, Starbocks etc pay millions in other tax vehicles such as PAYE, NI and staff employment. They aren't just getting away with it.

Paying one tax makes it alright to "evoid" another? So that's alright then.

[MicrosoftBob]

That's not exactly what I am saying. Tax laws are in place to give the Government the legal means to generate revenue for itself which it will then spend on bribing the general population with it's own money, whilst introducing stealth taxes to take away more money than they're bribing you with.

FTFY

[Alan @ BroomeAffinity]

And if you leave it to morality, the tax take would go down considerably. I'm continually surprised by people who would, I'm sure, consider themselves to be upright honest citizens who have absolutely no compunction in engaging in a bit of low level tax evasion, ie, no vat for cash or pocketing a couple of quid without declaring.

[LisaContractorUmbrella]

Can I ask why do you think it is not an issue of morality (as well as law)?

That's not exactly what I am saying. Tax laws are in place to give the Government the legal means to generate revenue for itself which it will then spend (in theory) on looking after the general population. Sometimes the laws that are written are badly drafted or, more often than not, are so complex and with such limited guidance, that they are naturally open to interpretation. If a lawyer has one interpretation and HMRC have another they will battle it out in Court and a Judge will decide who's right and who's wrong and that's proper and correct. When the Government, with the media's help, encourage the belief in the General Public that this is not the correct position and that tax should be decided according to morality then the Government will encourage HMRC to introduce tax legislation which may be legally questionable (such as APN's) as they will have no fear of a public backlash.

[vadhert]

That's HMRC - keep chasing the little guy and turn a blind eye to the giants. HMRC could get this 109m and much more by just taxing Facebook properly. Perhaps they are still too busy accepting dinners from Vodafone? Or forgiving Goldman Sachs enormous tax debts ?

Happy to be schmoozed by Vodaphone. Happy to let GS off tens of millions. Happy to see Facebook paying 4k CT. But if the corner shop sends its tax return in a fortight late, Grrrr! HMRC gets angry!

You have to remember that Facetube, Starbocks etc pay millions in other tax vehicles such as PAYE, NI and staff employment. They aren't just getting away with it.

[MrMarkyMark]

But if the corner shop sends its tax return in a fortight late, Grrrr! HMRC gets angry!

Funny you should say that, my stepdad worked in the building trade, we had the VAT man as a "visitor" on a few occasions.

The old man said don't ever be late with your VAT return / payment, not a day late etc.

A few years ago I was off for a couple of months. Unfortunately when landing, at a fairly small island, in India, I then found my VAT cheque. .
I tried to post it there, knowing there was very little chance of it actually arriving.

It didn't.
When I rang HMRC, they said "Oh thats OK, we can see you usually pay on time".

It was over 2.5 months late, by that stage, no further action apart from to pay, the old man couldn't believe it .