Reply to: Account didn't submit FPS to HMRC

[prozak]

Trust accountants for advice, tax planning, technical matters and maybe CT submissions.

Run your own business and understand it and these sort of things wont happen and if they do you know who to blame!

Do your own VAT and payroll.

It really is not that hard as a contractor.

Spend £200 on quickbooks.

DIY your own payroll and RTI submission - ::: Payroo.com - Free RTI Payroll Software for UK ::: - free for small businesses like yours.

[BolshieBastard]

Old \ new accountants will \ should only do what you have instructed them to do.

Bit silly 'assuming' anything if you run your own ltd co. IMHO, of course.

[jmo21]

Latest from original accountant:

As you were on a nil salary returns were made to HMRC using their ‘NIL return’ facility. Copies of these returns up to and including December 2013 were provided to your new accountants. You should therefore question what action your new accountants took in April 2014 as there would have been end of year routines for PAYE to complete which could not have been done until post 5th April 2014, at which point we no longer providing service.


I can't believe i actually paid for this sh@t...........

There is a certain smugness about their reply, and sadly you are caught in the middle.

Be interesting to hear how new accountant responds.

[TheFaQQer]

Latest from original accountant:

As you were on a nil salary returns were made to HMRC using their ‘NIL return’ facility. Copies of these returns up to and including December 2013 were provided to your new accountants. You should therefore question what action your new accountants took in April 2014 as there would have been end of year routines for PAYE to complete which could not have been done until post 5th April 2014, at which point we no longer providing service.


I can't believe i actually paid for this sh@t...........

If you were on a nil salary, then it looks like the old accountant did exactly as they should have done - they filed a nil return. You should check whether this actually took place, of course, but if they did that then they appear to have done everything required of them.

Your accountant on / after April 5th 2014 should have done the end of year things, so I would ask your new accountant why that didn't happen.

[Alan @ BroomeAffinity]

Well, if you were on a nil return - possibly because other income in the year meant there would be no taxable benefit in having a salary - then accountant 1 doesn't seem to have done an awful lot wrong.

[xantamisch]

Then they have cocked up equally. This is december and only now you are being made aware of this.

It's difficult to reclassify any payment. Basically what your intention was defines this. But the lack of paperwork is problematic.

Latest from original accountant:

As you were on a nil salary returns were made to HMRC using their ‘NIL return’ facility. Copies of these returns up to and including December 2013 were provided to your new accountants. You should therefore question what action your new accountants took in April 2014 as there would have been end of year routines for PAYE to complete which could not have been done until post 5th April 2014, at which point we no longer providing service.


I can't believe i actually paid for this sh@t...........

[Alan @ BroomeAffinity]

The new accountants were engaged immediately

Then they have cocked up equally. This is december and only now you are being made aware of this.

It's difficult to reclassify any payment. Basically what your intention was defines this. But the lack of paperwork is problematic.

[SarahL2012]

To me, that seems a very strange approach to take. They seem to be suggesting that you now falsify your records and create back-dated dividend paperwork to cover for this. I would have thought that the correct approach would be to have declared everything as salary, admit to HMRC that the paperwork wasn't done properly, and pay HMRC whatever fine / penalty is due for not doing it right.

I wouldn't be happy with the suggestion that for the previous tax year someone needs to start creating dividend paperwork and minutes to match what was done in the past.

This was my gut feeling as well. Its hardly going to be the first time HMRC have come across someone who has not processed their payroll taxes properly.

I wonder whether your old accountants didn't get themselves set up for RTI. Were they members of a professional accountancy body? In which case it is worth raising a complaint. You probably won't get any financial benefit from it but it will make you feel better!

[TheFaQQer]

"As XXXX did not submit these, we will need to treat all of your drawings as dividends"

To me, that seems a very strange approach to take. They seem to be suggesting that you now falsify your records and create back-dated dividend paperwork to cover for this. I would have thought that the correct approach would be to have declared everything as salary, admit to HMRC that the paperwork wasn't done properly, and pay HMRC whatever fine / penalty is due for not doing it right.

I wouldn't be happy with the suggestion that for the previous tax year someone needs to start creating dividend paperwork and minutes to match what was done in the past.

[sal]

The new accountants were engaged immediately

Change them again immediately. The new one should have picked this for at least Feb-March 2014, if not back to April 2013.

[xantamisch]

The new accountants were engaged immediately

[Alan @ BroomeAffinity]

Account didn't submit FPS to HMRC

That's a fair point. If they hadn't submitted to January 2014 then there is potential culpability depending on what your agreement with them is.

However, this could / should easily have been resolved after January and before April by your new accountants if they had been appointed, or you, as a responsible company director if they hadn't.

When were the new accountants engaged?

[xantamisch]

I'm clearly being thick

Accountants "A" were my accountants from April 2013 to Jan / Feb 2014 when they informed me they were no longer doing accountancy ie their choice, not mine

During that period they did not submit the FTP for 2013 / 2014 - presumably they should have done so?

My new accountants have made all this very clear and I pay a monthly salary and dividends separately, Previous accounts - I drew whatever amount and they determined salary vs dividend at year end - which does now seem pretty cr@p but that was how they did it

[Alan @ BroomeAffinity]

RTI = Real Time Submissions. In other words your monthly filings.

KB'd = knocked back. Terminated. Ended. Stopped.

[Alan @ BroomeAffinity]

RTI submissions are supposed to be made in "real time". Difficult to do that ahead of time.