Collective bargaining

[DeludedKitten]

I think that JtB was talking about IPSE.

That’s how I’ll view it anyway for now.

Having read his posts in both places, WordIsBond isn't wrong.

[BolshieBastard]

"I'd rather we acquire a client who has put us through the wringer and has realistic expectations than one who expects and wants to be led by the nose into whatever we deem is best"

the problem is, how many of us are going to get the chance of discussing, let alone negotiating the issues with the client?

"I'm suggesting that the contractors, united, can dictate minimum conditions on all intermediaries, us included, and that failing to do so will lead them into the same mess"

The problem as I see it here is that the "principle" organisation which claims to represent the contracting community appears to be following a different path to that which many of its members believe it should be taking.

Please, please learn how to edit the quote function. It really is tedious and tiresome reading the quote, for you then to type in quotes the part you wish to debate.

I mean come on, you're supposed to be an IT contractor and you cannot edit a bit of HTML!?!

[BR14]

I think that JtB was talking the usual tedious drivel.

That’s how I’ll view it anyway for now.

ftfy

[JohntheBike]

Please, please learn how to edit the quote function. It really is tedious and tiresome reading the quote, for you then to type in quotes the part you wish to debate.

I mean come on, you're supposed to be an IT contractor and you cannot edit a bit of HTML!?!

I'm a mainframe and HP3000 dinosaur and don't have much interest in the finer points of PC based technology. I'm obliged to use PC's but most of the technology is of little use to me in my work, other than allowing me to connect to the platforms I support.

edit
there is a whole wide World of highly paid specialist jobs outside of the PC environment you know, something that younger generation graduates seem to be oblivious to. What many people are unaware of is that those Unix and Windows servers that they delight in using are often hosted by an IBM mainframe emulating such platforms.

I discovered this when working for Ford in Cologne many years ago. The technology, originally called VM370 had been developed in the late 1960's by IBM and I'd had some exposure to the technology in the early 1970's when one physical mainframe was hosting two different types of IBM mainframe operating systems. During my 20 year absence from the IBM mainframe environment, clearly further operating systems were emulated. My current client uses 16 different LPARS, all hosted on one IBM mainframe, which also provides numerous other LPARS to a variety of clients.

[JohntheBike]

Having read his posts in both places, WordIsBond isn't wrong.

I guess if you knew the exact circumstances of the bans, then you might have a different opinion.

[JohntheBike]

ftfy

time will tell if what I say is tedious drivel as you put it.

[webberg]

I am not quite as downbeat as other people. From what I can see a majority of public sector contracts are still outside IR35 so why should the private sector be any different?

I hope your data set is indicative of the public sector position, but I have to say that clients contacting us, tell a different story.

They speak of blanket "inside IR35" rules; HR telling them that outside Ir35 is no longer an option; jobs being advertised as "inside" which were previously outside.

The private sector will be much more risk averse than the public sector partly because of bottom line and partly reputational. They know that HMRC has better data now and will target mid size firms and contractors operating there before moving on to bigger one.

We already know that several banks have gone for the "no more contractors" rules and that others have created some confusion with department heads and budget holders having perhaps different views than those making policy. This is music to the ears of HMRC.

That music will be distinctly off key for contractors unless they organise their own counterpoint.

[JohntheBike]

I hope your data set is indicative of the public sector position, but I have to say that clients contacting us, tell a different story.

They speak of blanket "inside IR35" rules; HR telling them that outside Ir35 is no longer an option; jobs being advertised as "inside" which were previously outside.

The private sector will be much more risk averse than the public sector partly because of bottom line and partly reputational. They know that HMRC has better data now and will target mid size firms and contractors operating there before moving on to bigger one.

We already know that several banks have gone for the "no more contractors" rules and that others have created some confusion with department heads and budget holders having perhaps different views than those making policy. This is music to the ears of HMRC.

That music will be distinctly off key for contractors unless they organise their own counterpoint.

To have any chance of affecting these issues, there has to be a high profile and expensive outcome (to the client) case in the ET. The outcome of the ongoing Alcock case will be interesting.

[SussexSeagull]

I hope your data set is indicative of the public sector position, but I have to say that clients contacting us, tell a different story.

They speak of blanket "inside IR35" rules; HR telling them that outside Ir35 is no longer an option; jobs being advertised as "inside" which were previously outside.

The private sector will be much more risk averse than the public sector partly because of bottom line and partly reputational. They know that HMRC has better data now and will target mid size firms and contractors operating there before moving on to bigger one.

We already know that several banks have gone for the "no more contractors" rules and that others have created some confusion with department heads and budget holders having perhaps different views than those making policy. This is music to the ears of HMRC.

That music will be distinctly off key for contractors unless they organise their own counterpoint.

Not saying there aren't contracts being listed as inside IR35 but from what I am seeing a majority are still outside. As for the private sector being less risk adverse than the public sector, you survive in the private sector by making money for your employer and survive in the public sector by not making mistakes so I disagree.

That said as for next April none of us really know. My suspicion is the city is having one of it's occasional goes at getting rid of contractors (never worked there but by the sound of it there is a large amount of permatractors working there) and it might eventually settle down.

Ultimately, we will all have to wait and see.

[JohntheBike]

Please, please learn how to edit the quote function. It really is tedious and tiresome reading the quote, for you then to type in quotes the part you wish to debate.

I mean come on, you're supposed to be an IT contractor and you cannot edit a bit of HTML!?!

I'd be quite happy to take tuition from you on this issue, but in contrast, I guess you'd not be interested in learning about IBM mainframe issues.