HMRC Consultative Document - marketed tax avoidance schemes

[dezze]

Raising cash for APN

For those where the APN *may* be an amount that is not totally massive (say 20-30k), has anyone discussed it with their mortgage holder or bank (to get a loan) ?

A number may have to do this in the coming months, and wondered if anyone has already approached their bank/building society - do they care what the money is for, or is there an issue for the reason for the extended overdraft or loan. It's not like you're building an extension.

[Rob79]

Everybody should be aware that the HMRC Debt Management and Banking (DMB) department does have the ability to arrange "time to pay" plans.

These were mentioned by the CEO of HMRC in two recent Parliamentary sessions.

If you do have a tax bill and have issues with payment, contact them EARLY.

I'm not saying it won't be painful but it should prevent fatalities.

[warlord]

For those where the APN *may* be an amount that is not totally massive (say 20-30k), has anyone discussed it with their mortgage holder or bank (to get a loan) ?

A number may have to do this in the coming months, and wondered if anyone has already approached their bank/building society - do they care what the money is for, or is there an issue for the reason for the extended overdraft or loan. It's not like you're building an extension.

Asked my bank Barclays and they are not as a matter of course lending for debt consolidation purposes anymore, only home improvements cars etc. So say you are putting in a new Kitchen u should get accepted.

[warlord]

Everybody should be aware that the HMRC Debt Management and Banking (DMB) department does have the ability to arrange "time to pay" plans.

These were mentioned by the CEO of HMRC in two recent Parliamentary sessions.

If you do have a tax bill and have issues with payment, contact them EARLY.

I'm not saying it won't be painful but it should prevent fatalities.

When I asked these guys before they said max time to pay was One year. Great. Thats 2.5k a month then. Can't see me passing an affordability review LOL. But hey can't see HMRC caring as long as they get their money. Maybe just stop paying the mortgage for a year

[retrodeath]

My accountant said he'd seen up to 5 years given - this was from the Swiss off shore account thing a couple of years back. Be interesting to know if any of this people were bankrupted

[dezze]

My accountant said he'd seen up to 5 years given - this was from the Swiss off shore account thing a couple of years back. Be interesting to know if any of this people were bankrupted

That would be unusual for sure. I think the poster that said a year is right, and even then you would have to argue for that long.

Problem is, the amounts could be so large there is no way they are payable. Also, I know a number of people that went permie and just don't have the savings and/or residual monthly income to pay a great deal. For those with houses, it may mean selling and starting again from scratch (if they're lucky). If that isn't an option, from the postings on here it appears bankruptcy is the only way. Nightmare.

[retrodeath]

I think bankruptcy is where I'll end up. The numbers don't really matter. It almost feels like
Monopoly money. I don't have a house and my assets extend to those owned by my ltd company, a jalopy and my bicycles. Unless I can find someone to lend me 200k there isn't much I can do. I'm on a corner. Irony is that I'm charging a good rate in a bank and just had contract extended by a year. Bankruptcy will stop me working in that area. My skills are very banky - not that desirable in the alternative start up world. Makes no sense to bankrupt me. If someone lent me a small mortgage if have no problem coping with payments.

I'm surprised someone isn't looking to market borrowing for these debts. 60000 people. That's a lot of interest. Would be a good earner for HMRC. Much better return for them than taking away my livelihood.

I'd rather not, but I have the option to work abroad - may as well if they take everything I earn here.

I'm quite looking forward to it getting going. I think the press will have a field day with a scenario like mine.

I don't want to go bankrupt. I am prepared to pay what they say I owe if there are reasonable terms to do so. They are cutting their noses off to spite their face.

[warlord]

I think bankruptcy is where I'll end up. The numbers don't really matter. It almost feels like
Monopoly money. I don't have a house and my assets extend to those owned by my ltd company, a jalopy and my bicycles. Unless I can find someone to lend me 200k there isn't much I can do. I'm on a corner. Irony is that I'm charging a good rate in a bank and just had contract extended by a year. Bankruptcy will stop me working in that area. My skills are very banky - not that desirable in the alternative start up world. Makes no sense to bankrupt me. If someone lent me a small mortgage if have no problem coping with payments.

I'm surprised someone isn't looking to market borrowing for these debts. 60000 people. That's a lot of interest. Would be a good earner for HMRC. Much better return for them than taking away my livelihood.

I'd rather not, but I have the option to work abroad - may as well if they take everything I earn here.

I'm quite looking forward to it getting going. I think the press will have a field day with a scenario like mine.

I don't want to go bankrupt. I am prepared to pay what they say I owe if there are reasonable terms to do so. They are cutting their noses off to spite their face.

You're missing the point HMRC want to punish us plebs for making some money. Pay great, if u can't we will bankrupt u and put in the press, it sends a message to other plebs look what happens.......what a world. So unfair. None of us would have gone near these schemes if we new HMRC would have invented a retrospective law changing time machine.

[retrodeath]

It's going to be difficult or then to deal with 60000 different payment plans. For their own sales they'll need to simplify the procedure.

Can pay. Raid. Can't pay. Bankrupt.

[Rob79]

I think I would not necessarily agree with Mr Warlord.

HMRC want the process to be a success. By that they want to agree with a large number of people that a very large amount of tax is due. That tax does not necessarily have to be paid immediately, so long as it's on the books as due. That way the Government can spend it on no doubt worthy projects even if it has yet to be collected.

At the same time they don't want a lot of sob stories getting into the press. Forcing a celeb into paying a million or so sells newspapers, but equally forcing members of "hard working families" into bankruptcy, benefits etc is not a good story for them. My personal view is that you'll find DMB reasonable and perhaps 3 year plans might become the norm.

Be warned though, if you had earnings of say £200,000, paid tax of £10,000 (fees of £10,000 paid will be ignored) and HMRC want say £70,000, they will assume that the tax saved has been used to acquire some form of asset. Might be second home, time share, car, jewels etc. In that case they would expect such asset to be sold to pay the tax. You would get time for that.

Above was also mentioned the possibility of a loan. There are a number of peer to peer lenders emerging in this area. I would expect those to multiply because this is potentially good business. It may be that specialist groups of lenders particular to sectors also appear - I can see the sense in that. It would be worth keeping your eyes open.

(And no, I don't work for or represent any such group, have no access to such funds and am not on any commission or retainer to direct anybody to such funds and in fact don't know of any active in this sector).