Edge EBT thread

[DonkeyRhubarb]

At this stage we may as well wait to see what's actually in the Finance Bill which should be published around the time of the Budget next week.

One we see the actual clauses, that Parliament will be asked to vote on, then it's time to start writing to MPs.

[ramzanamin]

As previously posted, certainly contact your local Member of Parliament and make them aware of the issues concerning the retrospective nature of these proposed new legal powers for HMRC.

Ensure that all relevant documentation is still available and think about financial arrangements should the worst happen.

I do not agree that the majority of contractors truly appreciate the implications but no more warnings from me!

The warnings are appreciated and agree members of parliament should be approached early to highlight what will be submitted so they are forewarned.

[Saleos]

Accelerated Payment Notices set to become law

https://www.gov.uk/government/public...idance-schemes

https://www.gov.uk/government/public...settle-dispute

The two TIINs published today strongly suggest that Government is set to largely ignore the numerous and robust representations made about these proposals.

The time for standing on the sidelines has now past. Whilst supporting those encouraging those affected to take these proposals up with their local MP, the responses I have seen from MPs suggests support for the proposals not sympathy for those affected.

You must now plan on the basis that these proposals will become law. If they do you will have to pay the tax under dispute with HMRC.

The only way of getting it back will be to take a lead case to the Tribunal and hope that it is decided in favour of the taxpayer. Only then will HMRC be obliged to repay the money these rules will force you to pay to them before any liability has been conclusively determined. Sitting back and letting matters take their course will now be the expensive not cheap option.

This is not an attempt to drum up more members for my group but to encourage those in other groups, or more accurately those representing them, and those stood on the sidelines, to step forward.

Litigation is expensive if done properly. And I don't mean like Philip Boyle.

In my experience litigation to the FTT using a good law firm with extensive tax litigation expertise and experience and a good Counsel of suitable standing will cost at least £200,000; more likely £300,000 as HMRC have largely yet to go through even the document gathering stage of their enquiry.

I work closely with law firms, and Counsel, who I could recommend for this work; Counsel who have at opined either on the Edge structure itself or ones very similar to it before. I would be happy to work with other advisors representing other groups to see if they could be brought together to choose a suitable lead case, instruct lawyers and Counsel and see former Edge employees have their day in Court. In that way they will at least have the chance of recovering the tax that will have to be paid up front under these proposals.

But this will be possible only with a collective will and the financial backing of a significant proportion of those affected.

Michael J Perry, if you read this and wish to explore this please do contact me. The Dandy, and Bernard O'Kelly, likewise. Members of their groups if you think this a sensible way forward please encourage them to do so.

[ramzanamin]

https://www.gov.uk/government/public...idance-schemes

https://www.gov.uk/government/public...settle-dispute

The two TIINs published today strongly suggest that Government is set to largely ignore the numerous and robust representations made about these proposals.

The time for standing on the sidelines has now past. Whilst supporting those encouraging those affected to take these proposals up with their local MP, the responses I have seen from MPs suggests support for the proposals not sympathy for those affected.

You must now plan on the basis that these proposals will become law. If they do you will have to pay the tax under dispute with HMRC.

The only way of getting it back will be to take a lead case to the Tribunal and hope that it is decided in favour of the taxpayer. Only then will HMRC be obliged to repay the money these rules will force you to pay to them before any liability has been conclusively determined. Sitting back and letting matters take their course will now be the expensive not cheap option.

This is not an attempt to drum up more members for my group but to encourage those in other groups, or more accurately those representing them, and those stood on the sidelines, to step forward.

Litigation is expensive if done properly. And I don't mean like Philip Boyle.

In my experience litigation to the FTT using a good law firm with extensive tax litigation expertise and experience and a good Counsel of suitable standing will cost at least £200,000; more likely £300,000 as HMRC have largely yet to go through even the document gathering stage of their enquiry.

I work closely with law firms, and Counsel, who I could recommend for this work; Counsel who have at opined either on the Edge structure itself or ones very similar to it before. I would be happy to work with other advisors representing other groups to see if they could be brought together to choose a suitable lead case, instruct lawyers and Counsel and see former Edge employees have their day in Court. In that way they will at least have the chance of recovering the tax that will have to be paid up front under these proposals.

But this will be possible only with a collective will and the financial backing of a significant proportion of those affected.

Michael J Perry, if you read this and wish to explore this please do contact me. The Dandy, and Bernard O'Kelly, likewise. Members of their groups if you think this a sensible way forward please encourage them to do so.

i agree - its time to club together not operate in silo's

[albo]

Michael - new to the forum - how do I get to PM you?

[gettingangry]

Hope and a prayer

"In my experience litigation to the FTT using a good law firm with extensive tax litigation expertise and experience and a good Counsel of suitable standing will cost at least £200,000; more likely £300,000 as HMRC have largely yet to go through even the document gathering stage of their enquiry."

Who is going to pay this sort of money bearing in mind that you could possibly end up losing - you'll need to fund the cost as well as having to pay the tax etc. I don't know how many people are in any of the groups mentioned but I doubt it's more than 25 - are you all chipping in £12500?

I know Edge have stopped trading (very conveniently) but Redstone are just Edge in another name - what sort of recourse do we have with these people for selling us what is now being deemed as an illegal scam

[LandRover]

"In my experience litigation to the FTT using a good law firm with extensive tax litigation expertise and experience and a good Counsel of suitable standing will cost at least £200,000; more likely £300,000 as HMRC have largely yet to go through even the document gathering stage of their enquiry."

Who is going to pay this sort of money bearing in mind that you could possibly end up losing - you'll need to fund the cost as well as having to pay the tax etc. I don't know how many people are in any of the groups mentioned but I doubt it's more than 25 - are you all chipping in £12500?

I know Edge have stopped trading (very conveniently) but Redstone are just Edge in another name - what sort of recourse do we have with these people for selling us what is now being deemed as an illegal scam

Misselling of financial Instruments should be investigated by FSA?

No doubt in the smallprint there is a clause hidden away that lets these scheme providers off the hook. Many of us through the ongoing fear and uncertainty of IR35 were "sold" into these schemes. Many think we should have known better, but hindsight is a wonderful thing. But these providers should be ultimately liable, as being the Employer they are responsible for PAYE.

[jbryce]

Misselling of financial Instruments should be investigated by FSA?

No doubt in the smallprint there is a clause hidden away that lets these scheme providers off the hook. Many of us through the ongoing fear and uncertainty of IR35 were "sold" into these schemes. Many think we should have known better, but hindsight is a wonderful thing. But these providers should be ultimately liable, as being the Employer they are responsible for PAYE.

.....the cash maybe better off chasing Edge/Redstone/Sanzar/etc. But if the schemes were legal, and implemented correctly, then that might be difficult.

[GoneSouth]

I don't know how many people are in any of the groups mentioned but I doubt it's more than 25

You would be very wrong then. As I understand it both The Dandy and Saleos have organised groups with quite decent numbers. Feel free to contact them both if you are interested in details

[GoneSouth]

Group representation

If you have any desire to pursue group representation please see Norla/Edge Former Employee EBT Self Help Group

Request PM (private message) access if you don't already have it. You can post a request or contact the admins via this page: http://forums.contractoruk.com/sendmessage.php

PM TheDandy here: http://forums.contractoruk.com/priva...=newpm&u=39502
PM Saleos here: http://forums.contractoruk.com/priva...=newpm&u=41765

then make a decision if you have interest in one or both of the groups and if you are willing to foot the likely costs and advise the organiser(s) accordingly

Simply posting a desire to join a group will not achieve anything.

Sorry for the repetition but I want to ensure latecomers are informed