Any settlement figures yet?

[pegzyisdeed]

You may not have rec that detail, ask them to provide full calculations

Looks like they want to take off nearly 5k too in student loan too, even though its got about 1k left. Does anyone know where I can get form CL10 / CL12 ? Had a quick scan online and was unable to find them and they were not included in the 'settlement' pack.

[webberg]

Looks like they want to take off nearly 5k too in student loan too, even though its got about 1k left. Does anyone know where I can get form CL10 / CL12 ? Had a quick scan online and was unable to find them and they were not included in the 'settlement' pack.

Ask HMRC?

[Hitchphil]

Settlement figures

Got mine this morning ~25% of the 2007-09 loans ish. They provided previous tax return calcs & revised for all years included. So Tax paid was deducted from revised due & the final sum arrived that way. No NIC calcs.

Says they didn't charge interest on unprotected years.
One loan was below £5k so not listed on my SA return back then so they said no IHT on it because of insufficient information & no IHT applicable to loans as they are not written off. Why bother writing them off?

It also says "in addition no further charges will arise including NI or income tax in respect of fees paid to persons abroad. - So does that mean the funds transferred to the trustees then loaned back less their fees? (my ltd Co's are closed & off shore)

& that settlement will be full & final for those years only (but i didn't use EBTs etc on any other years) so thats ok i guess?

The bit i dont like in the contract terms says - "I undertake not to take any action with a view to obtaining repayment from HMRC of any part of the Settlement Amount including but not limited to making a claim under a) schedule 1 AB of the Taxes management act 1970 or b) common law" - so does that mean if I settle & Uk Gov say the backdating of settlement was not right i cant get a refund!?

I have 30 days to reply so will wait till the Gov respond on the early day motion on the charge.

But will still make a 'revenge reinvestment' from ISA to SIPP & use current relevant earnings to recover every penny of the settlement as tax rebates to SIPP & payg SA... & recycle that too!

A bit of advice i got was to put a clause in my will to the effect of excluding the Trustees from any benefit on demise in case they attempt to recover loans from my estate.

My trustees (MannMade) offered to take the funds back vs settle & invest them, then release them later in life when my tax circumstances are more amenable (i.e. when retired so 20% tax only) however their fee for years to do that as a % of the loans & the fact they already had ~10% as fees on the original sums was not great. & then the investment brokers fees on top means fund performance would be stunted from birth. They also didn't reply to questions & some of those were simple - Terms of trust deed & Establishment / assets of the trustee company & regulation of it - not confidence building when they wont answer those!

Good luck to all of you out there in this mess.

[here4beer]

A bit of advice i got was to put a clause in my will to the effect of excluding the Trustees from any benefit on demise in case they attempt to recover loans from my estate.

My trustees (MannMade) offered to take the funds back vs settle & invest them, then release them later in life when my tax circumstances are more amenable (i.e. when retired so 20% tax only) however their fee for years to do that as a % of the loans & the fact they already had ~10% as fees on the original sums was not great. & then the investment brokers fees on top means fund performance would be stunted from birth. They also didn't reply to questions & some of those were simple - Terms of trust deed & Establishment / assets of the trustee company & regulation of it - not confidence building when they wont answer those!

Good luck to all of you out there in this mess.

This is interesting, I'll do this too I think. Who gave you the advice? A legal professional or gazza down the slug n lettuce?

I think my promoter is a relative of mannmade, they also offered me wild/creative ways of dealing with things. Did they not just let you 'release' the loan for a fee? I've not got that far yet

Good luck to you too

[Hitchphil]

This is interesting, I'll do this too I think. Who gave you the advice? A legal professional or gazza down the slug n lettuce?

I think my promoter is a relative of mannmade, they also offered me wild/creative ways of dealing with things. Did they not just let you 'release' the loan for a fee? I've not got that far yet

Good luck to you too

Legal Sec at work - In the bit that says by virtue of their deeds and behaviour, i here by exclude the following from any benefit etc etc ........... Trustees will get no more fees. They can go swivel.

[here4beer]

Legal Sec at work - In the bit that says by virtue of their deeds and behaviour, i here by exclude the following from any benefit etc etc ........... Trustees will get no more fees. They can go swivel.

That seems quite a simple fix to this outstanding loan mess. I assume it works because of the fiduciary trust relationship in that your dying 'best interest' is they don't take any thing from your estate?

[dangermaus]

Settlement offer

If full loan figures have been verified and disclosed to HMRC, are they liable for any miscalculations in their settlement offer?

If I feel as though they have calculated a figure lower than it should have been due to them calculating the wrong class of NIC, can I accept and pay the settlement offer and not have to worry about them months or years later, deciding they under-charged via the wrong class and demanding a further payment?

Surely it's up to HMRC to check the correct tax rates and NIC classes have been calculated rather than me...

[here4beer]

If full loan figures have been verified and disclosed to HMRC, are they liable for any miscalculations in their settlement offer?

If I feel as though they have calculated a figure lower than it should have been due to them calculating the wrong class of NIC, can I accept and pay the settlement offer and not have to worry about them months or years later, deciding they under-charged via the wrong class and demanding a further payment?

Surely it's up to HMRC to check the correct tax rates and NIC classes have been calculated rather than me...

Of course they'll come back to you asking the corrected amount. The question, is will they notice...

[dangermaus]

Of course they'll come back to you asking the corrected amount. The question, is will they notice...

I assume that if they do the calculation for a final settlement then they cant then charge me any further interest past that point for extra NICs they had originally miscalculated. But I guess HMRC seem to do what they want and get their own way regardless most of the time! I wonder if there is a cut off date that they cant go back and re-open this some year in the future?

I contracted, invoicing through my own Ltd company but as my retainer and loan payments came from the scheme promoter/trust (once I had paid them each month), I only paid class 2 and class 4 NICs on tax returns (classed as self employed) I guess this is because I wasnt actually being paid a salary (for NIC class 1 purposes) from my Ltd company. The only payments ever made to me from my Ltd company were dividends for which full corp tax and eventually dividend tax were paid.

Not sure if that sounds right or not but that's what HMRC have calculated in my settlement offer. Just pondering as to whether to accept and pay or if I'm really just so beat up by this whole episode that I'm practically looking for someone to tell me I need to pay more!

[here4beer]

I assume that if they do the calculation for a final settlement then they cant then charge me any further interest past that point for extra NICs they had originally miscalculated. But I guess HMRC seem to do what they want and get their own way regardless most of the time! I wonder if there is a cut off date that they cant go back and re-open this some year in the future?

I contracted, invoicing through my own Ltd company but as my retainer and loan payments came from the scheme promoter/trust (once I had paid them each month), I only paid class 2 and class 4 NICs on tax returns (classed as self employed) I guess this is because I wasnt actually being paid a salary (for NIC class 1 purposes) from my Ltd company. The only payments ever made to me from my Ltd company were dividends for which full corp tax and eventually dividend tax were paid.

Not sure if that sounds right or not but that's what HMRC have calculated in my settlement offer. Just pondering as to whether to accept and pay or if I'm really just so beat up by this whole episode that I'm practically looking for someone to tell me I need to pay more!

How my my scheme sounds very similar to yours, although i also took a tiny salary of 10k per year - the rest was small divis and big trust loans.

My 'complete settlement' done by a Tax Advisor, has my limited company paying employers NIC (13.8%), and me paying Employees NIC Class 1. I can't see Class 2 or 4 on there, unless that's already covered in my tiny salary?

Is yours complete settlement, or just personal?

edit - I'm very much of the opinion to just pay the 'lower' amount, and keep the delta aside in an ISA or something.