AML 2019 Loan Charge

[Genesis]

Runster, Yes!

I received my first enquiry from HMRC for my dealings with AML in 2014 and have been dealing with the fallout since, some people have been dealing with it for way longer. There are so many questions to ask and I can honestly say the advisors I have spoken to have been incredibly helpful, just assisting in getting your head around what is going on.

Once you have your figures from AML, register an interest to settle with HMRC (This MUST be submitted by 31st May 2018). HMRC will take a few months to respond with what they believe you owe. At that point you will have something to work with... you are registering an "interest" to settle, you are not "agreeing" to the figures or to settle.

This will give you some breathing space to read up on this mess (yes it is a mess) and become more informed.

MLeggsy

This is my big question - is registering an interest not akin to fessing up? Can you thereafter decide to go down the loan repayment option?

An additional question - when they work out the tax owed, is there grounds to say, well, prior to signing up to AML I was working through my own Ltd Company, so therefore, if I'd kept on doing that, I wouldn't have been paying anywhere close to 40-45% tax (as the figure that is being banded around). Surely they must have to take this into account or is a simple case of black/white and they say, tough luck mate - you make your bed you lie in it!

[MLeggsy]

Fess up

This is my big question - is registering an interest not akin to fessing up? Can you thereafter decide to go down the loan repayment option?

An additional question - when they work out the tax owed, is there grounds to say, well, prior to signing up to AML I was working through my own Ltd Company, so therefore, if I'd kept on doing that, I wouldn't have been paying anywhere close to 40-45% tax (as the figure that is being banded around). Surely they must have to take this into account or is a simple case of black/white and they say, tough luck mate - you make your bed you lie in it!

Hi Genesis,


Fessing up or delaying the inevitable?... Both you personally and AML have to report the loan figures to HMRC on the Loan Charge in 2019 - Failure to do so comes with Penalties = Not Good.

If your register an interest, when HMRC send you the settlement figures, you can verify them and argue mathematical issues (wrong loan amount for example) - You cannot argue the basis for settlement - This is their formula - They will not do a deal.

Remember that the settlement applies the loan in the year you took them... for me that's about 30% -35% of the loans owed in Tax+NI.

You don't have to settle, you can weigh up the difference with taking the hit in 2019... but having both figures allows you to make that choice/judgement.

I too was Limited Company before AML and moved back to Limited the week after I received my first HMRC enquiry letter - I still can't believe I bought their spiel!

MLeggsy

[Runster]

This is my big question - is registering an interest not akin to fessing up? Can you thereafter decide to go down the loan repayment option?

An additional question - when they work out the tax owed, is there grounds to say, well, prior to signing up to AML I was working through my own Ltd Company, so therefore, if I'd kept on doing that, I wouldn't have been paying anywhere close to 40-45% tax (as the figure that is being banded around). Surely they must have to take this into account or is a simple case of black/white and they say, tough luck mate - you make your bed you lie in it!

Yes, I thought about that. Empoyees on PAYE get benefits for the salary they earn and pay PAYE on - we didn't. But I don't think HMRC have violins.

[Genesis]

Hi Genesis,


Fessing up or delaying the inevitable?... Both you personally and AML have to report the loan figures to HMRC on the Loan Charge in 2019 - Failure to do so comes with Penalties = Not Good.

If your register an interest, when HMRC send you the settlement figures, you can verify them and argue mathematical issues (wrong loan amount for example) - You cannot argue the basis for settlement - This is their formula - They will not do a deal.

Remember that the settlement applies the loan in the year you took them... for me that's about 30% -35% of the loans owed in Tax+NI.

You don't have to settle, you can weigh up the difference with taking the hit in 2019... but having both figures allows you to make that choice/judgement.

I too was Limited Company before AML and moved back to Limited the week after I received my first HMRC enquiry letter - I still can't believe I bought their spiel!

MLeggsy

AML have already asked HMRC for settlement figures for myself and many others. What was it they called it again (another acronym). This was 2017 and to date, nothing has been forthcoming. This was off the back of the questions on the tax returns that AML submitted on our behalf. So in theory, I'm on HMRC's radar anyway, like it or not.

The fact that you aren't committing to anything is the point I was trying to clarify.

How would you work out what tax was due on any specific year out of interest? I am impacted on 2013/14 and 2014/15. I presume all the shenanigans to move us away from being 'employed' at the start of 2016 tax year negates the 15/16 year from any liability, as up until quite recently, KHT through AML (or SPM) were still chucking out loans to folk.

[Runster]

AML have already asked HMRC for settlement figures for myself and many others. What was it they called it again (another acronym). This was 2017 and to date, nothing has been forthcoming. This was off the back of the questions on the tax returns that AML submitted on our behalf. So in theory, I'm on HMRC's radar anyway, like it or not.

The fact that you aren't committing to anything is the point I was trying to clarify.

How would you work out what tax was due on any specific year out of interest? I am impacted on 2013/14 and 2014/15. I presume all the shenanigans to move us away from being 'employed' at the start of 2016 tax year negates the 15/16 year from any liability, as up until quite recently, KHT through AML (or SPM) were still chucking out loans to folk.

I still have loans outstanding with SP Management via Carnegie Knox. I need to get myself an accountant and start invoicing via a Ltd Company. Anyone else in the same boat?

[ozzyo99]

You cannot argue the basis for settlement - This is their formula - They will not do a deal.

Remember that the settlement applies the loan in the year you took them... for me that's about 30% -35% of the loans owed in Tax+NI.

How far along in this process are you, and what have your steps been (timelines appreciated)?

Also, can you clarify the bold text? What do you mean here? I was with them July 2011 to Dec 2014.

[Genesis]

I still have loans outstanding with SP Management via Carnegie Knox. I need to get myself an accountant and start invoicing via a Ltd Company. Anyone else in the same boat?

You must be paid via an umbrella though yeah - ie an employee of the umbrella rather than SPM which was the method HMRC have used to screw us over.

[Runster]

I still have loans outstanding with SP Management via Carnegie Knox. I need to get myself an accountant and start invoicing via a Ltd Company. Anyone else in the same boat?

They are saying I need to sign an agreement with them that I am willing to 'conduct business electronically' and won't pay the loan until I have done so. I'm getting worried they'll take my money and run. I spoke to someone yesterday and she said someone would call me to discuss. Has anyone else found this?

I just spoke to them - they said they had to change the way the pay me so that I am a nominee now and this puts us back in compliance and is no longer disguised remuneration. I said 'until HMRC change the rules again' - to which he said 'we're always one step ahead' - I said 'why didn't you do this 4 years ago?'....... he audibly shrugged. So, I'm thinking I should just sign. Thoughts, anyone?

[MLeggsy]

You're on the radar

AML have already asked HMRC for settlement figures for myself and many others. What was it they called it again (another acronym). This was 2017 and to date, nothing has been forthcoming. This was off the back of the questions on the tax returns that AML submitted on our behalf. So in theory, I'm on HMRC's radar anyway, like it or not.

The fact that you aren't committing to anything is the point I was trying to clarify.

How would you work out what tax was due on any specific year out of interest? I am impacted on 2013/14 and 2014/15. I presume all the shenanigans to move us away from being 'employed' at the start of 2016 tax year negates the 15/16 year from any liability, as up until quite recently, KHT through AML (or SPM) were still chucking out loans to folk.

Hey Genesis,

I don't know what has gone on between you and AML, but for me...

I received enquiries from HMRC.
AML supplied Loan figures (Not Settlement) to HMRC.
I personally registered an interest to settle - NOT AML.

Plenty of online PAYE Calculators - Most allow you to select the year.

Employed/Self Employed/Unemployed - Status will affect the amounts due, but come 2019 you will need to report for all loans received from AML regardless of your Status when you took them.

MLeggsy

[Runster]

You must be paid via an umbrella though yeah - ie an employee of the umbrella rather than SPM which was the method HMRC have used to screw us over.

Anyone care to recommend - Umbrella v Lyd Company, and a good umbrella?