BIG GROUP

[Colfeian]

Settlement pack received

Pause - big breath - pause again - call us.

It's easier to talk about this - no charge - than to write this up again here.

You can Google us at WTT Big Group.

So I have now received my settlement pack from HMRC.
they want it back by 30th Sept.
if I fill this in and return back to them, is that it? - I will owe tax!
is this the point where I need to decide whether to settle or fight on?

not sure what to do or what this now means to me.

[bhand5]

cost for Litigation

There is a choice to be made between settlement and fighting on.

The settlement offer will arrive this year, perhaps early next and you will have a limited time to accept it. If you do not accept it, your choices then become litigating or reaching some other agreement with HMRC. Clearly Big Group is aiming at reaching that agreement on behalf of all its members but will, if required, litigate.

So, until you reach a point of the settlement offer expiring, a final decision is not required.

The loan charge is based on a deemed event at 5th April 2019. You are required to disclose information by the end of September 2019 and the tax is due 31st January 2020.

Will we have a resolution by then? Probably not as HMRC are using their usual delaying tactics and even though we are pushing hard, getting a Tribunal date and decision by then is unlikely. (This assumes that HMRC continue to litigation, even where they have a low chance of winning, because despite a strategy on these matters, HMRC routinely disregard it and continue anyway).

So the question then becomes whether a loan charge arises.

We have seen promoters of various colours claim that their scheme is outside the loan charge rules. we have seen HMRC claim the opposite. Given that HMRC has not backed up their claims with a factual analysis of each scheme it has to be observed that the "all loans are caught" type of statements owe more to dogmatic adherence to policy than application of law to facts.

However, it's clear that non disclosure or appeal against an assessment or statement, will be met with a contrary position from HMRC, possibly leading to further litigation.

We have an analysis that in some instances supports what the promoters say and in some cases does not. We will make that available to all Big Group members and explain the consequences of that analysis being right or wrong. We cannot and do not guarantee that if we say no disclosure is required or that the loan charge can be defeated, we are correct.

Doing anything that is contrary to HMRC's view brings a risk. We will explain those risks to our members and guide them as to a sensible decision.

That decision might be:

Settle
Litigate the loan charge
Litigate the scheme
Pay the loan charge and fight afterwards
Pay the loan charge on all years
Pay the loan charge only on closed years

Much as I would like to present simple, black or white, options, I cannot.

So would there be extra costs for Big group members if it was decided to go down the path of litigation?

[webberg]

Hi Webberg

Just so I understand is LCAG and BIG Group the same thing ??.. or attempting to provide the same sort of service ?

No.

LCAG and Big Group are entirely separate in their aims and objectives.

Some Big Group members are in LCAG, some are not. LCAG (probably) has members who are not in Big Group.

Big Group is pursuing a policy and strategy that is designed to reach a resolution with HMRC on the liability alleged to have arisen on the use of a contractor scheme.

LCAG - who I'm sure can speak for themselves - are by my understanding looking at the constitutional legality of the loan charge and whether it can be challenged.

Big Group does look at the loan charge and how that can be factored into the resolution process, but is not, for the moment, considering any challenge over the legality of that charge.

There are many points at which the strategy Big Group is following meets, supports, derives support from or otherwise assists LCAG strategy, but make no mistake that they are different.

[lowpaidworker]

Hi Webberg

Just so I understand is LCAG and BIG Group the same thing ??.. or attempting to provide the same sort of service ?

[webberg]

Hi Webberg,

I'm considering joining BIG Groups resolution plan.
I have already registered for settlement and provided my loan figures to HMRC.

IF I decide to go with the resolution plan will this mean I'll miss out on the settlement option ( as the plan exceeds the cut off date to agree settlement terms, end of Sept)?

Secondly, if the resolution plan goes past April 2019, won't I have to pay the loan charge?

Thanks

There is a choice to be made between settlement and fighting on.

The settlement offer will arrive this year, perhaps early next and you will have a limited time to accept it. If you do not accept it, your choices then become litigating or reaching some other agreement with HMRC. Clearly Big Group is aiming at reaching that agreement on behalf of all its members but will, if required, litigate.

So, until you reach a point of the settlement offer expiring, a final decision is not required.

The loan charge is based on a deemed event at 5th April 2019. You are required to disclose information by the end of September 2019 and the tax is due 31st January 2020.

Will we have a resolution by then? Probably not as HMRC are using their usual delaying tactics and even though we are pushing hard, getting a Tribunal date and decision by then is unlikely. (This assumes that HMRC continue to litigation, even where they have a low chance of winning, because despite a strategy on these matters, HMRC routinely disregard it and continue anyway).

So the question then becomes whether a loan charge arises.

We have seen promoters of various colours claim that their scheme is outside the loan charge rules. we have seen HMRC claim the opposite. Given that HMRC has not backed up their claims with a factual analysis of each scheme it has to be observed that the "all loans are caught" type of statements owe more to dogmatic adherence to policy than application of law to facts.

However, it's clear that non disclosure or appeal against an assessment or statement, will be met with a contrary position from HMRC, possibly leading to further litigation.

We have an analysis that in some instances supports what the promoters say and in some cases does not. We will make that available to all Big Group members and explain the consequences of that analysis being right or wrong. We cannot and do not guarantee that if we say no disclosure is required or that the loan charge can be defeated, we are correct.

Doing anything that is contrary to HMRC's view brings a risk. We will explain those risks to our members and guide them as to a sensible decision.

That decision might be:

Settle
Litigate the loan charge
Litigate the scheme
Pay the loan charge and fight afterwards
Pay the loan charge on all years
Pay the loan charge only on closed years

Much as I would like to present simple, black or white, options, I cannot.

[bhand5]

BIG group query

Hi Webberg,

I'm considering joining BIG Groups resolution plan.
I have already registered for settlement and provided my loan figures to HMRC.

IF I decide to go with the resolution plan will this mean I'll miss out on the settlement option ( as the plan exceeds the cut off date to agree settlement terms, end of Sept)?

Secondly, if the resolution plan goes past April 2019, won't I have to pay the loan charge?

Thanks

[Groundhogdays]

Hi Guys,

There is a petition being launched on Parliament UK website at https://petition.parliament.uk/petitions/218582 . There are only over 3,000 signatures on it now. If we can make it 10,000 they will discuss it in the house. Please sign and pass on to the next person too. It is our interest to thrash this unfair bill by HMRC.


Thanks,

You'll get 'a response from government's at 10,000 signatures and probably a templated one at that.

It is only at 100,000 that it will get debated in the house. I don't know if that's possible within the 6 month life of a petition.

MPs might be more likely to sit up and take notice if something like the NHS workforce can be demonstrated to have been severely impacted. They won't want that on top of Brexit. Maybe LCAG have something on that?

[chathan]

Stop the Loan Charge Petition

Hi Guys,

There is a petition being launched on Parliament UK website at https://petition.parliament.uk/petitions/218582 . There are only over 3,000 signatures on it now. If we can make it 10,000 they will discuss it in the house. Please sign and pass on to the next person too. It is our interest to thrash this unfair bill by HMRC.


Thanks,

[Endofdays]

Anyone one taken advice down under

Guys nervous worried newbie here I've been reading lot threads especially here and I was wandering if anyone taken advice from specialists down under regarding LC and settlement and if authorities like the Ato will get involved don't think I could handle havi g to deal with two of them at the same time - = in a similar vain https://mobile.twitter.com/Aresea9/s...78556565774336 based on this how will those show may have moved on changed addresses left the UK with no correspondence be contacted or have idea what's coming?
can I ask webberg/Phil do you currently engage with guys down under

[webberg]

Can anyone advise best way forward now I am Ltd Company, no longer involved in any so called "scheme"? I have heard that PSC+ is the safest option....?

Thanks

Newbee

This is probably not the thread you need here.

We and I'm sure a lot of others offer ways to operate in a safe way in what is becoming an increasingly hostile environment.

The use of a PSC is not a panacea for all problems and you really need some unbiased advice.