Dodgy contractor schemes, undercutting and competition

[Old Greg]

But you did. I hope its a perma ban. Although, since you did call a well know walter-mitty poster a nonce, I hope its reduced to 10 years.

I forgive you for your hatred of me. I rather like you.

[Old Greg]

It is possible scheme users could have undercut Ltds. Just like it's possible Ltds could undercut umbrella users.

But I don't think this is anything you need to worry about in future.

Any scheme users that aren't bankrupt are going back to Ltd.

Thank you for acknowledging the effect on competition.

[DonkeyRhubarb]

Thank you for acknowledging the effect on competition.

You are welcome.

[jbryce]

Thank you for acknowledging the effect on competition.

What? if you haven't been accepted for contracts it's more likely your inability to do perform the task than competition from anyone else.
My limited company has been up against offshore, nearshore, and god knows what else. I have won on merit and my ability.
Thankfully, you will continue to fail to get work, at some point you will recognise that it is your ability that lets you down rather than some perceived paranoia.

[mos]

Thankfully, you will continue to fail to get work, at some point you will recognise that it is your ability that lets you down rather than some perceived paranoia.

(frankly I have seen lesser man getting the job many, many times before. No sale.)

[Old Greg]

What? if you haven't been accepted for contracts it's more likely your inability to do perform the task than competition from anyone else.
My limited company has been up against offshore, nearshore, and god knows what else. I have won on merit and my ability.
Thankfully, you will continue to fail to get work, at some point you will recognise that it is your ability that lets you down rather than some perceived paranoia.

Hi jb, thanks for sharing your experience. My experience aligns to an extent. Sometimes I win business on quality. Sometimes I lose business on price. I'm trying to understand if there is a relationship between losing on price and the lower cost base of dodgy scheme users.

I'd be interested in your views on some of the economics that sits behind the question, so perhaps I can split it up:

1. Would you agree that using a dodgy scheme gives a lower cost base than operating via a Ltd?
2. Would you agree that having a lower cost base gives a competitive advantage?
3. Would you agree that having a competitive advantage leads to winning more business in competitive business?

If the answer to all three of these question is yes in general terms, is there something different about contracting which mean that these principles do not apply? The principles do seem to apply with tradesmen offering 'cash prices', so what is diiferent about us?

[sasguru]

You were a permie until what, 2 years ago? I hardly think 2 years as a contractor represents a good sample, .

I've been a contractor since the 90s, I occasionally go permie if I get a good deal, retraining etc.
I even remember the golden pre-IR35 days.
Anyway OG, I get the feeling that the congregation's experience is not yours i.e. people don't seem to think they've lost much work due to undercutting by cretin schemers.

[scooterscot]

I dare not stray onto the holy ground of the NTRT thread for fear of angering the Mighty Ones.

And in the vague hope of having an interesting discussion, here we go in General.

I know that I've lost business on one occasion, at extension time, to a cheaper contractor who was operating 'under the Jimmy Carr scheme' to use her own words. I couldn't match her price and she could afford her price because of her scheme.

But I wonder on how many occasions I may have lost business without knowing. You see an ad and speak to the pimp who doesn't put you forward because there are others quoting 10 to 20% lower that you. I have no way of knowing if they are dodgy scheme folk, but... look at it from another angle: every time a dodgy scheme contractor gives a price to a client, their non-dodgy-competitors are at a competitive disadvantage because they have a substantially higher cost base. It is like trying to compete with on-line CD sellers who operate from jurisdictions where no / low VAT is payable.

Anyone else go any experience or thoughts on this or am I just unlucky, paranoid, mean-spirited etc.?

And I thought confidence in the UK was returning. MTFU.

If someone is charging less for the same skills, your skills are past their sell by date.

HTH,

SAS.

[sasguru]

And I thought confidence in the UK was returning. MTFU.

If someone is charging less for the same skills, your skills are past their sell by date.

HTH,

SAS.

The commoditisation of certain skills is certainly an issue but that was not OG's point

[Old Greg]

The commoditisation of certain skills is certainly an issue but that was not OG's point

Yes, I wouldn't expect scooterscot to understand basic economics, seeing as he can't even manage to expense a hotel stay.