Scotland's new currency

[doodab]

For Amazon the customers are not going anywhere. Tax should be charge at the point of sale and not in the Cayman islands. Small business is being hammered by the likes of them. When we have control of our tax laws change shall be swift here, I hope.

I'd agree, although I think the wider internet shopping boom and local government approach to town centre planning and business rates has played it's part as well.

The trouble is every bilateral DTA I've seen says that the sort of storage and distribution operation Amazon runs doesn't give rise to a tax liability in the host country. You need to remember that at the moment any Scottish (or UK, French, German etc) business can sell elsewhere in Europe and have a local warehousing and distribution arrangement without having to deal with local corporation tax etc, and if you change those rules for Amazon you need to change them for everyone, and they would need to be the same in both directions, which means making it more complicated and expensive for other people to do business in Scotland and vice versa. So you're going to have a job changing that because the other party would likely object, although you would have the theoretical advantage of starting with a clean sheet as technically there wouldn't be a preexisting tax treaty to renegotiate.

[minestrone]

Anyway, we are significantly more likely, probable in fact, that we will have a higher individual taxation rate with no lowering of business rates. A total disaster really, the real left left will probably be quite a political force after independence. Scares the monkey tulipe out of me.

At least there is nice weather in Cuba.

[scooterscot]

I've often thought that a larger economy is more stable in the long term. An independent Scotland could end up more like Ireland where they have been through a huge round of boom and bust...

The UK has gone through boom and bust for all the years I've been alive. There is no such thing as 'long term' in British politics. We've long lost that capability. You only need to have a look at Germans to see what stable & long-term looks like to see how unstable we truly are.

Scotland's dominant politics are Socialist and the capitalist Tory party have just 1 MP in Scotland. Why do you think this would suddenly swing to the right just because they become independent? I think it will be quite the opposite and they will move more towards their socialist ideals.

The true capitalists, like myself, have left Scotland long ago in search of fortune & glory. The Tories are not capitalists even though that's what it says on the badge. Had they followed the rules of capitalism failed banks would have died. On the other hand human values to those less well off than myself are very important to me and I do more than attempt to involve others in my professional life, particularly those at home. We only need self confidence and I do my bit to encourage that in others.

RBS are headquartered in Edinburgh,they print Scottish bank notes and have done for years, it is a Scottish bank.

But even it it wasn't here are some questions for you:

1. If these banks with the word "Scotland" in their names are NOT Scottish banks then what is Scotland going to do for a bank when they become independent?

2. What would an independent Scotland do if one of their banks should fail as RBS did? And don't tell us that they could follow Iceland's example because you can't compare a country with a population the size of Aberdeen to Scotland.

1) On paper Apple does all it's world business from a small office in Luxembourg. No one for a minute believes that. It's only unfortunate Luxembourg is not the French for Apple.

2) It's nonsense to suggest a bank the size of RBS would exist in an independent Scotland. It would never have been allowed. That's why they operate from London.

[scooterscot]

I'd agree, although I think the wider internet shopping boom and local government approach to town centre planning and business rates has played it's part as well.

The trouble is every bilateral DTA I've seen says that the sort of storage and distribution operation Amazon runs doesn't give rise to a tax liability in the host country. You need to remember that at the moment any Scottish (or UK, French, German etc) business can sell elsewhere in Europe and have a local warehousing and distribution arrangement without having to deal with local corporation tax etc, and if you change those rules for Amazon you need to change them for everyone, and they would need to be the same in both directions, which means making it more complicated and expensive for other people to do business in Scotland and vice versa. So you're going to have a job changing that because the other party would likely object, although you would have the theoretical advantage of starting with a clean sheet as technically there wouldn't be a preexisting tax treaty to renegotiate.

This is where I want to see small business become the backbone of the country. And making quality products bespoke to them. For as long as UK high streets are selling tat imported from China they are never going to compete with the like of Amazon, regardless of their tax status. Towns & city centres can become popular again if they start selling things that say 'Made in Britain' on them. But as we've become a nation of bean counters it's unlikely to happen any time soon.

Here in Germany small business is what makes the country the success it is today, not the large corporations. Faber-Castell continue to make pencils today. Not in China, in Germany and they have been doing so for decades. How is that possible? It's a story repeated across the country. I would love to see that happen in Scotland even if it means becoming exporters of deep fried mars bars.

[AtW]

Will there be any disputed territories between Independent Scotland and Greater England?

Ie like Gretna Green

[doodab]

Anyway, we are significantly more likely, probable in fact, that we will have a higher individual taxation rate with no lowering of business rates. A total disaster really, the real left left will probably be quite a political force after independence. Scares the monkey tulipe out of me.

At least there is nice weather in Cuba.

That's why I think long term it will be a bad move. It *could* work out really well as the optimists hope, but only if you had completely different politicians. Although to be fair, you could say pretty much the same thing about the UK as well

What we need is a revolution, not a vote for independence. I'd also point out that many of the westminster political class you take issue with are actually Scottish. The chances are you will end up with them if you vote yes, which will of course be a boon for rUK.

[doodab]

Here in Germany small business is what makes the country the success it is today, not the large corporations. Faber-Castell continue to make pencils today. Not in China, in Germany and they have been doing so for decades. How is that possible? It's a story repeated across the country. I would love to see that happen in Scotland even if it means becoming exporters of deep fried mars bars.

What are you going to make though? Ships are an obvious option but AFAIK you don't really have a superyacht industry like the Swedes & Germans. Renewable energy might be an option, there is a lot of microelectronics & ICs but that's all foreign companies. Outside of food and drink about the only Scottish company I can think of with consumer appeal is Linn hi fi. You're going to need some serious investment and entrepreneurialism to make it happen, which will ultimately require a business friendly lending culture rather than the current bunch of sharks.

The thing is a lot of people in the UK would like something similar but you need the domestic demand there to support it, and in the UK (and Scotland will not be any different as far as I can see) the market isn't there because the UK consumer will happily pay the same or slightly less for a cheap Chinese made piece of crap on the high street or in Asda or Tesco as they will for a decent product. For the retailers margins are therefore higher on cheap tulip and realising this they stock their shelves with tat. If you want a decent quality product you have to go out of your way to track down a specialist retailer, often driving miles, or shop online. You simply can't pop out to the shops and buy good stuff, especially in most smaller towns.

That's part of why Germany thrives IMO. Although they are often criticised for having an overly export led economy with "weak domestic demand" the reality is that if you walk into a shop in Germany you're confronted with wall to wall German branded goods (although many are actually manufactured in eastern Europe and China now). They buy German bicycles, German white goods, German tools & German cars.

[doodab]

Lax policies over how much debt is OK and the kind of transactions that are ok are to blame for this tulip - lending to people who can't afford it and claiming that this is AAA quality asset, plus derivatives tulip that allowed lots of entities to lend money they never had in the first place.

But again, this was a global phenomenon, not a UK specific one. The exotic derivatives in question were mostly US creations.

[scooterscot]

What are you going to make though? Ships are an obvious option but AFAIK you don't really have a superyacht industry like the Swedes & Germans. Renewable energy might be an option, there is a lot of microelectronics & ICs but that's all foreign companies. Outside of food and drink about the only Scottish company I can think of with consumer appeal is Linn hi fi. You're going to need some serious investment and entrepreneurialism to make it happen, which will ultimately require a business friendly lending culture rather than the current bunch of sharks.

The thing is a lot of people in the UK would like something similar but you need the domestic demand there to support it, and in the UK (and Scotland will not be any different as far as I can see) the market isn't there because the UK consumer will happily pay the same or slightly less for a cheap Chinese made piece of crap on the high street or in Asda or Tesco as they will for a decent product. For the retailers margins are therefore higher on cheap tulip and realising this they stock their shelves with tat. If you want a decent quality product you have to go out of your way to track down a specialist retailer, often driving miles, or shop online. You simply can't pop out to the shops and buy good stuff, especially in most smaller towns.

That's part of why Germany thrives IMO. Although they are often criticised for having an overly export led economy with "weak domestic demand" the reality is that if you walk into a shop in Germany you're confronted with wall to wall German branded goods (although many are actually manufactured in eastern Europe and China now). They buy German bicycles, German white goods, German tools & German cars.

You'll get no argument from me here. I agree, I walk into shops here in Munich, home ware department store and it's 'Made in Germany' wall to wall even if it's a coffee grinder selling for €300, people will buy it. The quality is to be admired.

Never heard (ha ha) of Linn hi fi before, looks good. However it need not be innovative products. It can be simple and well made.

But I think energy production should be the focus. In my experience you mention your a engineer, and an engineer from Scotland and it caries some weight even if only a little. We've a strong engineering heritage and as such it should be focused on.

[AtW]

But again, this was a global phenomenon, not a UK specific one. The exotic derivatives in question were mostly US creations.

It turned out that greed is pretty universal... Deutsche bank allegedly holds derivatives 5 times the size of German GDP. How could that be even possible ...