Originally posted by minestrone
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Greed is Good!
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Originally posted by Old Greg View PostFirst point - of course it does, but there are definitions within which equality is logically possible.
Second point - most people on the left are looking to reduce inequalities in economic outcome, and reform or replace the structures that lead to increased inequality.
Of course you will disagree with this and that is fine. I merely wanted to point out how ridiculous your previous statement was.
You're right I don't agree How does social engineering reduce inequalities in economic outcome e.g. Universities being forced to take disadvantaged pupils even if their grades are not up to scratch? It's a fact that an individual with a very low IQ is unlikely to be economically successful (the obvious exceptions being the cast of TOWIE) - sending them to University would not increase their IQComment
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Originally posted by LisaContractorUmbrella View PostDo you have a definition of 'human worth' which allows for absolute equality?
You're right I don't agree How does social engineering reduce inequalities in economic outcome e.g. Universities being forced to take disadvantaged pupils even if their grades are not up to scratch? It's a fact that an individual with a very low IQ is unlikely to be economically successful (the obvious exceptions being the cast of TOWIE) - sending them to University would not increase their IQ
2. I said you wouldn't agree.Comment
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Originally posted by LisaContractorUmbrella View PostDo you have a definition of 'human worth' which allows for absolute equality?
You're right I don't agree How does social engineering reduce inequalities in economic outcome e.g. Universities being forced to take disadvantaged pupils even if their grades are not up to scratch? It's a fact that an individual with a very low IQ is unlikely to be economically successful (the obvious exceptions being the cast of TOWIE) - sending them to University would not increase their IQAnd what exactly is wrong with an "ad hominem" argument? Dodgy Agent, 16-5-2014Comment
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Originally posted by Mich the Tester View PostYou´ve pointed to a policy there which was bad in practice. Of course it´s silly to expect people to become more intelligent by sending them to university even if their grades aren´t up to scratch. However, that doesn´t negate the idea of reducing inequality of opportunity or trying to ensure that even the least intelligent or capable people can have a quality of life that is generally accepted as decent and the opportunity to lead a fulfilling life. Of course dimwits can't be astronauts, but they don't have to be left to rot just because they're less intelligent than other people. This isn´t even an exclusively left wing theme anyway.Comment
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Originally posted by Mich the Tester View PostYou´ve pointed to a policy there which was bad in practice. Of course it´s silly to expect people to become more intelligent by sending them to university even if their grades aren´t up to scratch. However, that doesn´t negate the idea of reducing inequality of opportunity or trying to ensure that even the least intelligent or capable people can have a quality of life that is generally accepted as decent and the opportunity to lead a fulfilling life. Of course dimwits can't be astronauts, but they don't have to be left to rot just because they're less intelligent than other people. This isn´t even an exclusively left wing theme anyway.“Brexit is having a wee in the middle of the room at a house party because nobody is talking to you, and then complaining about the smell.”Comment
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Originally posted by Old Greg View Post1. A definition in which the very state of being human is what defines worth.Originally posted by LisaContractorUmbrella View Post1. Clever but meaningless
As well as that, there is human sympathy. When we see pictures of starving people in some turd world hellhole, most of us feel at least a little sympathy for them, and some will then give money or take part in aid operations to help them. When we see a person sleeping on the street, most of us feel at least some sympathy for his or her plight, even if we don´t always take action based on that sympathy. The same goes for a person who is seriously ill or suffering horrible injuries. That´s because what we see is a human being and not an IQ number, an exam grade or a story of the good and bad things that person has done; quite simply, when you see human suffering you're able to imagine to some extent what feelings that person has. Your emotions are then a weaker reflection of the emotions you believe you would feel in that state. At that moment when the sympathy instinct is triggered, we have an inate sense of equality because we don't generally believe that another human being should have to suffer like that. Adam Smith tried to explain this in the Theory of Moral Sentiments, and I rather wish that all those people who claim to have read the Wealth of Nations would sit down and read this too.And what exactly is wrong with an "ad hominem" argument? Dodgy Agent, 16-5-2014Comment
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I think the premise that every one is born with equal worth is correct.
From there your actions define your worthiness - if for example you are a lazy scrotey toe rag who spends all their school years smoking pot, robbing cars and boning your cousin and therefore came out with no qualifications you will become less worthy a human being then someone who took a more virtous route as you will simply be of less value to the 'model' world.
Once we have agreed that then it does follow that actually you are of less value and it does not matter what social engineering or re-engineering is done if you have not used your formative years to obtain skills with value to other people you are worth less than other people.Comment
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Originally posted by LisaContractorUmbrella View PostBut that's the problem - lots of policies which purport to reduce inequality are bad in practiceAnd what exactly is wrong with an "ad hominem" argument? Dodgy Agent, 16-5-2014Comment
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