Tony Blair : there is a state of war between arabs and the west

[mcquiggd]

I just did... in order of results:

1) Comment by the Scottish Nationalist Party

2) Comment by 'Young Scots for Independence'

3) An article from the Sunday Herald (Scottish newspaper known for being partisan).

4) An article in the Times - written by Angus Macleod (sounds impartial to me).

I shall read each one at leisure... in the meantime, try Googling for the 'Darien expedition'...

The Darien expidition bankrupted Scotland, led to the dissolution of its Parliament and, basically, led to the acceptance by the Scottish ruling classes of the Act of Union, which prevented Scotland from financial collapse and led to the Scottish 'renaissance' period that created much of what Scotland is today, as the English gave the Scots trading rights around the world.

Oh, and the English gave Scotland money, to bail them out, just as they do today.

What do you think led to the development of the 'New Town' in Edinburgh, the capital city....?

[scotspine]

I just did... in order of results:

1) Comment by the Scottish Nationalist Party

2) Comment by 'Young Scots for Independence'

3) An article from the Sunday Herald (Scottish newspaper known for being partisan).

4) An article in the Times - written by Angus Macleod (sounds impartial to me).

I shall read each one at leisure... in the meantime, try Googling for the 'Darien expedition'...

The Darien expidition bankrupted Scotland, led to the dissolution of its Parliament and, basically, led to the acceptance by the Scottish ruling classes of the Act of Union, which prevented Scotland from financial collapse and led to the Scottish 'renaissance' period that created much of what Scotland is today, as the English gave the Scots trading rights around the world.

Oh, and the English gave Scotland money, to bail them out, just as they do today.

What do you think led to the development of the 'New Town' in Edinburgh, the capital city....?

dear dear - such a simplistic view. it doesn't take much digging to discern the hand of the english government of the day in the failure of the darien venture. and the development of the new town was funded by the trading of ports such as leith which at that time recorded greater revenues for customs and excise [indeed the claret cellars of edinburgh outdid any other in the uk at that time] than any other in the uk...stuff..pipe..smoke it

[mcquiggd]

Funnily enough I live in Leith, and have dined at the Vintners Rooms... they have employed an Italian to stock the wine cellar.

As for the failure of the Darien Adventure - where apparently almost half Scotland's available finances were put at stake through the Company of Scotland... why did they choose a rat infested tulipehole that the natives hadn't even bothered with?

And do you really think that England established a global trading network through luck?

Scotland's eventual - and relative - success - was in partnership with England, not despite, or because of that country.

If you look at how much has been wasted due to the emnity between the two countries... it is shameful.

[scotspine]

they have employed an Italian to stock the wine cellar. - i guess then the french finally ran out of good bordeaux

And do you really think that England established a global trading network through luck? - no, i would say force majeure

why did they choose a rat infested tulipehole - i understand the intention was to establish a trading route through to the east indies, not to cultivate the land itself

Scotland's eventual - and relative - success - was in partnership with England, not despite, or because of that country - you may as well invert your ordering of countries in that statement

If you look at how much has been wasted due to the emnity between the two countries... it is shameful. - d'accord, but certainly not on my part, despite having survived some 10 years in england and the collected sharp tongues of colleagues in that fair land.

[mcquiggd]

they have employed an Italian to stock the wine cellar. - i guess then the french finally ran out of good bordeaux

I doubt it - I am sampling one as we speak

And do you really think that England established a global trading network through luck? - no, i would say force majeure

Which is exactly what the Spanish, the French, the Dutch... and the Scots attempted. Europe was fighting itself for many years....

why did they choose a rat infested tulipehole - i understand the intention was to establish a trading route through to the east indies, not to cultivate the land itself

They wanted to set up a trading post. They found 1) nothing worth trading and 2) no food.

Scotland's eventual - and relative - success - was in partnership with England, not despite, or because of that country - you may as well invert your ordering of countries in that statement

Only if I wanted to alter history. England was already successful... or it would not have been able to save Scotland from bankruptcy back then. Ironic that it was a Scot who help found the Bank of England, but Scotland as a country could not survive finanically on its own.

If you look at how much has been wasted due to the emnity between the two countries... it is shameful. - d'accord, but certainly not on my part, despite having survived some 10 years in england and the collected sharp tongues of colleagues in that fair land.

I would venture that you have faced far less animosity being a Scot in England than I have being an Englishman in Scotland, in spite of the much publicised 'Scots will support anybody else blah blah'. How many times have you been assaulted?

IMHO English, Scots, Welsh and Irish should be busily concerned with how to make this particular part of the world work to our mutual benefit, rather than bickering over which football team to support. Feck me, we have enough to deal with.

[scotspine]

well to be sure, we're not short of bigots up here. i have been assaulted, afaicr, twice, both times in england, but nothing serious, i gave as good as i got and no occaision was a result of my being scottish. i did 'suffer' a constant drip of comments but reckon that it was never at any time to be taken seriously, but rather with a pinch of such humour as i could find.

i'm sure that at times, we can seem a little caustic to visitors but remember that we, historically, have been on the back foot and if it serves to rankle, also remember that you are beginning to see the stirrings of similar sentiment in england against incomers who to all intents and purposes appear to represent an unstoppable tide which threatens to engulf your culture.

i underwrite all this with an agreement to your final statement. the uk is not particularly large and it would serve us well to cooperate.

[Helios]

Not far from the truth? I disagree. The truth is that it is between the muslims and the west. For a start, as I understand it Iranians aren't arabs, and they are the worst of the lot.

Blair is a mealy-mouthed g1t. Never assume that he is telling the truth.

WTF does that have anything to do with what is going on.

Simple. Lebanon attacked. Isreal reataliated = War

Did anyone start protesting when Britain bombed the sh*t out of Germany during ww2? No, Germany started the violence so they had to suffer it. Same with lebanon and isreal. Lebanon just has to suffer the for its aggressive actions.

By the way what does tony blair have to do with this?

[wendigo100]

WTF does that have anything to do with what is going on.

Simple. Lebanon attacked. Isreal reataliated = War

Did anyone start protesting when Britain bombed the sh*t out of Germany during ww2? No, Germany started the violence so they had to suffer it. Same with lebanon and isreal. Lebanon just has to suffer the for its aggressive actions.

By the way what does tony blair have to do with this?

Er, this thread was originally about what Tony Blair said, not about Lebanon.

HTH

[Helios]

Why make a post about him? He is not important. While the skirmish is interesting. I wonder who will raise the flag in the enemy capitol.

[BobTheCrate]

Helios,

It wasn't the Lebanese who attacked Israel, it was and is Hezbollah, backed by Syria & Iran. So it is not correct to blame the Lebanese.

It seems broadly accepted that the Lebanese authorities did not have the means to kick Hezbollah out of their country.

What puzzles me though and no one has been able to explain, is that 'someone' was able to intimidate Syrian troops out of Lebanon only a short time ago. Presumably Hezbollah didn't 'cos Hezbollah partly relies upon Syria. If it were the Lebanese themselves it is harder to understand how they couldn't have done the same with Hezbollah.