Germans want to power themselves TOTALLY with wind/solar ...

[scooterscot]

Apologies trouble with phone.
The comment was aimed at Scooterscot for his unbelievable comment about Germany not having power cuts because the cables are underground.

I din't say 'not', did I?

Regardless consumer supply delivered underground is less susceptible to natural events such as lightening. Meaning less power-cuts.

[VectraMan]

Regardless consumer supply delivered underground is less susceptible to natural events such as lightening. Meaning less power-cuts.

Doesn't make it less susceptible to natural events such as the wind not blowing or the sun not shining.

[scooterscot]

Doesn't make it less susceptible to natural events such as the wind not blowing or the sun not shining.

I've a bad feeling you're suggesting the renewable power generated at time x is consumed at time x.

[Old Hack]

I've a bad feeling you're suggesting the renewable power generated at time x is consumed at time x.

Remember overhead lines also lose a lot of power over distance. Cables do too, but not as much; they're much more efficient.

I am also sure that there's no grid-scale storage of renewable energy, so in the case of Wind Turbine generated energy, where does it go in times of low consumption? Some operators are told to turn off turbines in times of low consumption. Doesn't matter to me, I send it to the grid to be paid for it regardless what they do with it. Even if I didn't send it to the grid I'd be paid for the amount if produces.

[minestrone]

For a quarter, electricity & hot water? For less than €300? Then PM me!!

Been away for a week previous to the 7 days but in the 28 days so we are talking about 40 something pound a month, got an electric shower and the heating has not been on in the last quarter. I would think the hot water out of the tap that would make up the difference between my system and your bill would be less than 20 quid over a quarter and that is being charitable. I have a fairly large house as well.

[darmstadt]

They've pretty much ****ed up their energy policies, a knee jerk reaction to Fukishima, pandering to the green lobby, dickheads: High Costs and Errors of German Transition to Renewable Energy - SPIEGEL ONLINE

[doodab]

I am also sure that there's no grid-scale storage of renewable energy, so in the case of Wind Turbine generated energy, where does it go in times of low consumption? Some operators are told to turn off turbines in times of low consumption. Doesn't matter to me, I send it to the grid to be paid for it regardless what they do with it. Even if I didn't send it to the grid I'd be paid for the amount if produces.

But are you sure that will still be the case in 40 years?

[scooterscot]

Been away for a week previous to the 7 days but in the 28 days so we are talking about 40 something pound a month, got an electric shower and the heating has not been on in the last quarter. I would think the hot water out of the tap that would make up the difference between my system and your bill would be less than 20 quid over a quarter and that is being charitable. I have a fairly large house as well.

That's cheap as chips that is.

I've family that live in the channel islands paying up to £700 a quarter!

[TykeMerc]

Being realistic, exactly how can you store excess generated electricity in the umpteen megawatt level so that it's available instantly and reliably at periods of higher demand/lower generation?

The only way I can think of is the Dinorwig model, but that needs some fairly specialised geography and I'd assume with large scale wind and solar generation the storage requirements would need quite a few Dinorwig type installations or some other viable approach.

I've never bought into the whole climate change thing, in fact I'm convinced it's all a massive scam, but I've no objection to renewables so long as they're sensible and realistic to implement. Hell I don't even object to the looks of windfarms, but it appears that there are some issues over the cost-benefit ratio with those.
Norway I believe has made extensive use of hydro-electric for donkeys years, I'm still a bit surprised we don't have more hydro generation in the UK. Germany being quite a large country with a lower population density than here, I would have thought would have some rational sites, but I make no claims to expertise when it comes to the geography of Germany so I could be very far off on that.

[scooterscot]

Being realistic, exactly how can you store excess generated electricity in the umpteen megawatt level so that it's available instantly and reliably at periods of higher demand/lower generation?

The only way I can think of is the Dinorwig model, but that needs some fairly specialised geography and I'd assume with large scale wind and solar generation the storage requirements would need quite a few Dinorwig type installations or some other viable approach.

Currently in Germany when excess energy is generated it is converted into gas and stored to generate electricity using conventional methods. Gas turbines can be used to generate megawatt supplies, much like they do in Dubai and Oman. However developing the technology is expensive, no one argues with that. But what is clear is the solution is viable and the technology available.

ZSW: The ZSW

The Power-to-Gas facility not only stores green energy but takes care of carbon dioxide as well

I've never bought into the whole climate change thing, in fact I'm convinced it's all a massive scam, but I've no objection to renewables so long as they're sensible and realistic to implement. Hell I don't even object to the looks of windfarms, but it appears that there are some issues over the cost-benefit ratio with those.

Norway I believe has made extensive use of hydro-electric for donkeys years, I'm still a bit surprised we don't have more hydro generation in the UK. Germany being quite a large country with a lower population density than here, I would have thought would have some rational sites, but I make no claims to expertise when it comes to the geography of Germany so I could be very far off on that.

I've no much interest in the climate business either. However saying that, I'm convinced our ability to survive in our changing environment is a must. And we would be generating our energy requirements with renewable sources, not finite supplies. I'd really love to see wave generation take off with some massive investment. Enough power in the waves exists off shetland to power the whole of the UK.

Hydro is only good for short-term demand when half the south east decides it's time for a cuppa once they've finished watching coronation street. Then the flood gates open on facilities like loch awe in Scotland. Wait until independence, the cost of the cuppa will shoot up.