Why I'm glad I look like Hitler

[Troll]

Yes.

Probably with the Soviet Union as they make a grab for Poland versus GB and possibly Germany

[AtW]

Probably with the Soviet Union as they make a grab for Poland versus GB and possibly Germany

Naturally - Soviet forces were massing up at the new German - Soviet (Poland was divided between Stalin and Hitler using secret deal that was denied by USSR until it became public in 1990s) border just before Axis invasion, this only makes sense for a suprise attack - Axis were doing the same but they were quicker by a few weeks...

[Troll]

Naturally - Soviet forces were massing up at the new German - Soviet border just before Axis invasion, this only makes sense for a suprise attack - Axis were doing the same but they were quicker by a few weeks...

who would have won?

[EternalOptimist]

I have had this theory for a while now - its all to do with industrialisation.

a few countries found that not only their production went through the roof, not only did national wealth go through the roof, and therefore state wealth went through the roof, but that meant that their military power went through the roof.

and like a teenage lad that discovers his muscles, and realises that no one else has muscles, well, whats to stop him ? he flexes them

[Troll]

I have had this theory for a while now - its all to do with industrialisation.

a few countries found that not only their production went through the roof, not only did national wealth go through the roof, and therefore state wealth went through the roof, but that meant that their military power went through the roof.

and like a teenage lad that discovers his muscles, and realises that no one else has muscles, well, whats to stop him ? he flexes them

You're talking about China now aren't you?

[AtW]

who would have won?

Well, if USSR was clear aggressor then chances are Hitler would have made deal with Churchill and USA would have either not entered WW2 in the first place or if it did then it would help Axis+Britain.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eZXuBm310-I

[EternalOptimist]

who would have won?

The axis , by a mile.

The soviet front line, even in its defensive positions was destroyed.

The army that held the germans at Moscow did not exist at Barbarossa. it was new. and the armies that threw the germans back, was mostly from the far east, siberian winterised divisions.

the soviets suffered from a couple of severe problems
pre war purges
need to relocate industry to the east
poor quality infantry

[AtW]

The soviet front line, even in its defensive positions was destroyed.

If USSR attacked first it would have lost same assets as when Axis attacked first, possibly less HOWEVER the real difference would have been that USSR would not get help from USA - that played critical role in defense of USSR even though it is dismissed by the Soviets.

[Troll]

If USSR attacked first it would have lost same assets as when Axis attacked first, possibly less HOWEVER the real difference would have been that USSR would not get help from USA - that played critical role in defense of USSR even though it is dismissed by the Soviets.

...and no mention of our help of Arctic convoys...ungrateful commie barsteward,

[AtW]

...and no mention of our help of Arctic convoys...ungrateful commie barsteward,

Those were very helpful but they were extension of Land Lease help that I mentioned indirectly

What really won WW2 was British stubborness in Churchil who despite Dunkirk refused to make deal and kept fighting ... that and 20 mln+ losses in USSR fighting Axis with all that was available. However in my view (after many years of research which yields different conclusions that I was tought in Soviet school) if Britain made deal with Hitler then USSR would have lost. Knowing what we know about Hitler now the whole world would have lost also.