US spy drone tricked into Iran landing

[Incognito]

Personally I think it's likely that the Iranians did actually do this and dismissing it as propaganda is a mistake.

Personally I think if anyone did do it, it was the Chinese who let the Iranians take the glory whilst they take the Tech.

I don't believe Paddy's 'claims' though.

[doodab]

Personally I think if anyone did do it, it was the Chinese who let the Iranians take the glory whilst they take the Tech.

Why?

There seems to be this perception that because the Iranians are run by an undesirable regime they are somehow backwards and it's just not the case. The regime considers being scientifically and technologically advanced as a key goal and devotes a lot of money to high tech research. Aside from supposedly developing a nuclear weapon, we are talking about a country that has launched it's own satellite on it's own launch vehicle, built it's own fusion reactor, made it's own microprocessors and already makes it's own UAVs and stealth materials. In some fields like medicine and biotech they are world class.

They have apparently been studying these drones since they were deployed and have some examples of other drones that have been shot down. The GPS system does appear to be vulnerable and the Iranians have some fairly advanced electronic warfare equipment purchased from the Russians, the idea that they couldn't figure out how to use it by themselves doesn't hold water IMO.

[Paddy]

Why?

There seems to be this perception that because the Iranians are run by an undesirable regime they are somehow backwards and it's just not the case. The regime considers being scientifically and technologically advanced as a key goal and devotes a lot of money to high tech research. Aside from supposedly developing a nuclear weapon, we are talking about a country that has launched it's own satellite on it's own launch vehicle, built it's own fusion reactor, made it's own microprocessors and already makes it's own UAVs and stealth materials. In some fields like medicine and biotech they are world class.

They have apparently been studying these drones since they were deployed and have some examples of other drones that have been shot down. The GPS system does appear to be vulnerable and the Iranians have some fairly advanced electronic warfare equipment purchased from the Russians, the idea that they couldn't figure out how to use it by themselves doesn't hold water IMO.

WDS

As I stated many times, I am not for the regime in Iran persons of the pro USA and partially Fundamental Christian Zionists hawks contradict themselves. Meanwhile Iranian scientists have been enticed to work for NASA and other US corps, and other that have refused have been killed

[Incognito]

Iran has got to where it is through buying Russian, Chinese and Pakistani expertise. You mention this GPS hack as if it is your run of the mill capability. An attacker has to be able to generate fake signals with perfect timing and power level and needs to have perfect knowledge of his victim’s position. Oh and that really only actually applies to civilian GPS. So yes Iran could most probably hack your TomTom.

Some GNSS signals are specifically designed to prevent spoofing or to deny unauthorized access — encrypted signals such as the GPS P(Y) and M-code and Galileo’s Public Regulated Service (PRS), or obscured signals such as the GLONASS P-code.

These signals produce asymmetry, meaning that the service provider has the encryption or generation mechanism while an attacker does not. Consequently, an attacker will not be able to generate the authentic encrypted signal for use in a spoofing broadcast or injection attack. Of course, civil users do not have access to the P(Y), M-code, or PRS, and even authorized military GPS users require Selective Availability/anti-spoofing module (SAASM) hardware, which is both expensive and access-restricted.

Signal Authentication | Inside GNSS

However, if someone managed to get access to lets say the Service Provider and managed to 'replicate' the encryption or generation mechanism then it is plausible that the same attacks that are 'theoretically' possible against civilian GPS is possible against say military GPS.

Do you know of any recent allegations of state sponsored attacks against oh I don't know, satellites perhaps?

Only a theory of course.

[Incognito]

As I stated many times, I am not for the regime in Iran persons of the pro USA and partially Fundamental Christian Zionists hawks contradict themselves. Meanwhile Iranian scientists have been enticed to work for NASA and other US corps, and other that have refused have been killed

I couldn't care less about the regime in Iran. It's obvious that once Syria is out of the way that Iran is the last big red dot on that map. It's schoolground politics, the biggest survive.

Why on Earth the Iranians can't see that beats me. They've seen all the others topple, do they really think that China / Russia will get involved? The US will already have carved up oil and infrastructure rebuilding rights with them.

[Paddy]

I couldn't care less about the regime in Iran. It's obvious that once Syria is out of the way that Iran is the last big red dot on that map. It's schoolground politics, the biggest survive.

Why on Earth the Iranians can't see that beats me. They've seen all the others topple, do they really think that China / Russia will get involved? The US will already have carved up oil and infrastructure rebuilding rights with them.

Dictators seldom let go because they convince themselves that they are invincible. Those dictators who gained power through a revolution believe that they own the country and will not give up gracefully. Eg Mugabe.

Regimes have to be toppled from the people inside the country, not bombed into submission from outside do-gooders. Bombing a country only unites people even if they hate their own government.

[doodab]

Iran has got to where it is through buying Russian, Chinese and Pakistani expertise. You mention this GPS hack as if it is your run of the mill capability. An attacker has to be able to generate fake signals with perfect timing and power level and needs to have perfect knowledge of his victim’s position. Oh and that really only actually applies to civilian GPS. So yes Iran could most probably hack your TomTom.

Unless you decide it's a requirement that the receiver can maintain a continuous lock as you gradually trick into believing it's somewhere else it's only the relative timing of the various fake data streams that matters as you can just blitz the receiver with noise so it loses lock and then start feeding it fake signals for it to regain the lock. These sorts of spoofing attacks have been demonstrated against civilian GPS receivers using both satellite simulators (basically test equipment) and delayed streams obtained directly from the satellites, using off the shelf DSP stuff costing peanuts. The Iranians would probably have a job getting hold of a simulator that can handle the restricted codes (like this one) but the delayed stream trick will work against military GPS as well unless they are designed specifically to detect it. The technology to delay the streams isn't actually that complex, certainly within in the ken of the Iranians.

It's also possible that blocking the military GPS signal might cause the receiver to fall back to the civilian signal that can be easily spoofed.

So the feasibility depends to some extent on how the receiver is designed and how good the spoofing detection capabilities are.

However, if someone managed to get access to lets say the Service Provider and managed to 'replicate' the encryption or generation mechanism then it is plausible that the same attacks that are 'theoretically' possible against civilian GPS is possible against say military GPS.

If you had a captured military grade receiver e.g. from another drone or missile, you would have circuitry that could generate both the encryption code and the P codes, or potentially the newer M code.

Do you know of any recent allegations of state sponsored attacks against oh I don't know, satellites perhaps?

Only a theory of course.

There were some reports of the Iranians "blinding" a spy satellite with a laser, how true they are I don't know.

[AtW]

Personally I think if anyone did do it, it was the Chinese who let the Iranians take the glory whilst they take the Tech. I don't believe Paddy's 'claims' though.

The Chinese are very likely to be able to do it, but they rarely like to show off their cards just like this and when they do it's beyond question, ie when they shot down their own satellite from orbit.