Oh dear, we're falling out of the sky

[TimberWolf]

That's why this doesn't add up to me. Even the guy who they say was holding the stick back the whole time had several thousand hours flying time - a big chunk of these will have be as PIC on small plane where his basic flying skills will have become ingrained...

From what I understand FO jobs with the major airlines are incredibly hard to come by. These airlines are able to pick the best and I'd be amazed if they had employed someone who so readily forget their basic skills, no matter how much pressure he was operating under.

Nevertheless he [Bonin] said he kept the stick back the whole time. What's left to add up?

[wim121]

Good thing it wasn't Ryain Air or they'd have to pay a surcharge for dying on the flight

Hahahahahahaha

Have you seen how an airbus is flown?

Looks complex, but really isnt that difficult. Easier than other earlier boeing 7** series like the 737 or 747 ..

[TimberWolf]

Hahahahahahaha






Looks complex, but really isnt that difficult. Easier than other earlier boeing 7** series like the 737 or 747 ..

A little dongle or dice hanging off the ceiling might have helped.

[Cliphead]

Pilots all over the world are saying to themselves 'WTF'.

From the smallest to the biggest the fundamentals of airmanship just don't change.

A couple of idiots fcked up big time.

[wim121]

you would have though a fecking great bleeper going off for the best part of the flight might already have been a givaway.

Makes for interesting reading though, i can understand one person making a mistake but three trained pilots and only 15 minutes from initial incident to crash

Indeed, completely unforgivable.

It has happened in the past and other teams have been able to stay airborne for hours before getting disorientated.

I can appreciate how some might, twilight confuses the ocean with the horizon and sky. Without attitude readings, you can find yourself in trouble quickly. But the point is the whole team was there and since pietostatic errors in years past have caused other planes to crash, airlines have trained flight crews on how to avoid a similar fate. Entire checklists have been written, so it is a circumstance that any modern pilot up to date with training, should know how to deal with.

I'll say the same as I said in the past thread about this, it is the french and we all know how stupid they are.

Shouldn't there be some big red light that shows it's gone from normal mode to feck me, we're going to crash mode?

There is, it shouts Stall, flashes the caution light and shakes the stick. A flight team as well should also know their own plane, for example, how much thrust and what flaps they need to maintain/increase/decrease altitude at varying flight levels.

I can appreciate if your instruments are giving you clearly false information, you may see a stall warning or altitude warning as another red herring, but all one has to do is look at the engine thrust levers to verify that isnt the case. Increasing thrust a little doesnt hurt, better than not having enough, but the main thing is to focus on keeping level flight until you can find a way to get your bearings using lights/geography.

[Cliphead]

Indeed, completely unforgivable.

It has happened in the past and other teams have been able to stay airborne for hours before getting disorientated.

I can appreciate how some might, twilight confuses the ocean with the horizon and sky. Without attitude readings, you can find yourself in trouble quickly. But the point is the whole team was there and since pietostatic errors in years past have caused other planes to crash, airlines have trained flight crews on how to avoid a similar fate. Entire checklists have been written, so it is a circumstance that any modern pilot up to date with training, should know how to deal with.

I'll say the same as I said in the past thread about this, it is the french and we all know how stupid they are.




There is, it shouts Stall, flashes the caution light and shakes the stick. A flight team as well should also know their own plane, for example, how much thrust and what flaps they need to maintain/increase/decrease altitude at varying flight levels.

I can appreciate if your instruments are giving you clearly false information, you may see a stall warning or altitude warning as another red herring, but all one has to do is look at the engine thrust levers to verify that isnt the case. Increasing thrust a little doesnt hurt, better than not having enough, but the main thing is to focus on keeping level flight until you can find a way to get your bearings using lights/geography.

Another FSX warrior

[wim121]

Another FSX warrior

Never played fsx, last time I played a flight sim was fs2000 I think .....


It is a fair statement to make though. Pilots log hundreds of hours at least, before they even get a commercial license. Then if they are trained on a new plane, they are trained step by step for ages in a sim, then log hundreds of hours of flight time in the model, before being responsible for that flight.

If one had that much training with any machine, it wouldnt be unfair to call them an expert. They have some of the best training of any profession and a design concept which has been aided by computing innovation, but the basic systems largely unchanged.

I dont think there should be any room for complacency or inadequate performance. If I flew something that could cause more damage to the ground than a missile, kill me and hundreds of other people and sped along at hundreds of miles an hour, I wouldnt do so unless I felt I could deal with every eventuality within my control.

[TimberWolf]

Pilots all over the world are saying to themselves 'WTF'.

From the smallest to the biggest the fundamentals of airmanship just don't change.

A couple of idiots fcked up big time.

My take, from the link to the verbal transcript given at the start of the thread, is that only one pilot ****ed up (or committed suicide). The second co-pilot being forgiven for believing (under the circumstances) that the first co-pilot had pushed the stick back as he had insisted, when in fact he hadn't. He then incorrectly concluded that they had already tried lowering the nose, and he too became confused. And by the time the captain came back there was no altitude to do anything except to go for pushing the nose up once again. It's amazing how quickly the crisis occurred after the captain went for a rest break. Amazing bad luck maybe.

[Basil Fawlty]

Never played fsx, last time I played a flight sim was fs2000 I think .....


It is a fair statement to make though. Pilots log hundreds of hours at least, before they even get a commercial license. Then if they are trained on a new plane, they are trained step by step for ages in a sim, then log hundreds of hours of flight time in the model, before being responsible for that flight.

If one had that much training with any machine, it wouldnt be unfair to call them an expert. They have some of the best training of any profession and a design concept which has been aided by computing innovation, but the basic systems largely unchanged.

I dont think there should be any room for complacency or inadequate performance. If I flew something that could cause more damage to the ground than a missile, kill me and hundreds of other people and sped along at hundreds of miles an hour, I wouldnt do so unless I felt I could deal with every eventuality within my control.

Exactly my point - the guy had 3000+ hours total flight time and countless hours in a sim. You don't get into the right hand seat for a major carrier unless you're highly capable. It's akin to forgetting how to walk when it's raining

[zeitghost]

The second co-pilot being forgiven for believing (under the circumstances) that the first co-pilot had pushed the stick back as he had insisted, when in fact he hadn't.

He then incorrectly concluded that they had already tried lowering the nose, and he too became confused.

Whereas with those dreadful oldfashioned mechanical control sticks it would have been obvious, since they're mechanically interlinked.