Why do people blame bankers and not Euro politicians for Europe's economic mess?

[sasguru]

This is a sort of new 'Godwin'. Anybody who dares to criticise capitalism must be some raging communist or fascist who wants to send a millions or people to their deaths in gulags, extermination camps or muddy empty rice fields. I propose to call it a 'Godlose'.

Nonsense. The facts are that those regimes did indeed send people to their deaths in "deaths in gulags, extermination camps or muddy empty rice fields" all in the name of building a better society.
The reality is that so far the system that has provided the most stability and prosperity to many is some form of capitalism.
It's not perfect because humans aren't perfect, but utopian schemes always seem to come unstuck when set againt the reality of the human animal.
Several millions of years hence we may evolve enough to try something better.

[original PM]

but all of those ideals were really about the people at the top having all the power and money......

which is really just greed!

[sasguru]

but all of those ideals were really about the people at the top having all the power and money......

which is really just greed!

We're a species of monkey which is status obsessed. T'will always be thus until we evolve a bit more.
The genius of capitalism is it give an outlet to those who would otherwie simply dominate unproductively.

[gingerjedi]

We're a species of monkey which is status obsessed. T'will always be thus until we evolve a bit more.
The genius of capitalism is it give an outlet to those who would otherwie simply dominate unproductively.

I'm not, maybe I'm highly evolved?

Do try to keep up.

[sasguru]

I'm not, maybe I'm highly evolved?

You think you are. But you are dominated by others.

[DimPrawn]

Well, in my case, it's because the bastards from a huge Dutch financial conglomerate took 350 euros per month off me in private pension contributions for 10 years, wrapped it all up in AAA grade investments, and then sent me an overview of the capital that's supposed to pay for my old age, 2312 euros, and then started whining when the government threatened to regulate their practises. I'd quite like to get my hands on the thieving bastards at this very well known financial conglomerate and strangle them. But first I might rip their intestines out and piss all over them.

I suspect, or sorry, I know, that there are a lot of other people in a similar position, and they're not all thick.

Yet another reason why the traditional "You give us money and we promise when you are old we'll pay you handsomely" pension system is crock to be avoided. The fees, and bonuses, the contempt to which they treat your hard-earned is staggering. "Sorry we pissed it all up on fees, giant bonuses and casino style speculative gambling" seems to be the stock answer.

s

[AtW]

GBP EUR: 1 - 1.18
EUR USD: 1 - 1.31

These are exchange rates which are not much different from those seen in the last 12 months.

There is no Euro currency crisis, there is a problem with some dirty spekulants trying to get extra cash for buying Govt bonds issued in euros.

[Mich the Tester]

GBP EUR: 1 - 1.18
EUR USD: 1 - 1.31

These are exchange rates which are not much different from those seen in the last 12 months.

There is no Euro currency crisis, there is a problem with some dirty spekulants trying to get extra cash for buying Govt bonds issued in euros.

The EFSF offered bonds this morning; they were three times oversubscribed and the yield is 0.2%. Crisis.

[sasguru]

GBP EUR: 1 - 1.18
EUR USD: 1 - 1.31

These are exchange rates which are not much different from those seen in the last 12 months.

There is no Euro currency crisis, there is a problem with some dirty spekulants trying to get extra cash for buying Govt bonds issued in euros.

That's the same argument Pooper the cretin used. Neither of you knows jack tulip about economics.
The Euro is only holding its value because it's Germany's currency. For now.

[AtW]

The Euro is only holding its value because it's Germany's currency. For now.

The point is that the currency market is largely unaffected.

This is because it is a lot bigger and it is much harder to manipulate it, so spekulants attack bonds sales of individual countries instead.

Now imagine Italy, Greece and others had their own currencies ... the attacks would still happen only their currencies would tank and cause massive inflation in those countries, thanks to euro they don't have that real problem.

As for massive debt in bonds that they sold, it is so big that it became problem for those who bought it.