Anyone near Taunton on the M5 last night?

[PAH]

I would suggest that this black stuff is actually caused by one of the vehicles already on fire.

That does sound possible as witness reports say vehicles were still crashing after people were out of their cars trying to help others, though the only vehicles on fire were from the middle after the initial crash, so not like the incident started with a fire.

Surely there are cameras covering the junction and stretch after it, so more than just witness statements (that are notoriously unreliable or contradictory) or crash scene forensics to go on, allowing a more definite determination of events and cause.

[Arturo Bassick]

That does sound possible as witness reports say vehicles were still crashing after people were out of their cars trying to help others, though the only vehicles on fire were from the middle after the initial crash, so not like the incident started with a fire.

Surely there are cameras covering the junction and stretch after it, so more than just witness statements (that are notoriously unreliable or contradictory) or crash scene forensics to go on, allowing a more definite determination of events and cause.

Agree it did not start with a fire. Hope there are cameras covering it otherwise the real culprit (if they survived) will just say they entered a large bank of smoke so slowed down and were hit from behind.

[darmstadt]

Very thick patchy fog this morning on the way to work, in places you could only see 5 meters in front. No lights on the motorway, twisty up and down road and no accidents. This road I drive every week and in winter its sheer hell and I'm extremely surprised that there are no big accidents on it. I think the firework display is a bit of rubbish reporting and people were going too fast in the fog with a wet and slippery surface.

[TimberWolf]

The worst fog I've experienced was on an 'A' road near Harrogate. I was driving at a crawl trying to make out the white lines in the middle of the road while some bastard lorry was about a foot off my rear bumper. Visibility can't have been more than a few feet.

[Scrag Meister]

The worst fog I've experienced was on an 'A' road near Harrogate. I was driving at a crawl trying to make out the white lines in the middle of the road while some bastard lorry was about a foot off my rear bumper. Visibility can't have been more than a few feet.

At least you had the lorry for protection from a rear end shunt by another vehicle.

[TimberWolf]

At least you had the lorry for protection from a rear end shunt by another vehicle.

Yeah, as long as you don't end up as the meat in a lorry sandwich.

[PAH]

Another possibility is that the bonfire (on a small holding nearby but not connected to the rugby club or firework display) caused the localised fog due to how smoke particles react with humidity (from the nearby river, or earlier rainfall), so even if it wasn't smoke they drove into, the fog may have resulted from the smoke.

There was lots of fog in the area anyway* so not sure more fog/smoke from a nearby source makes much difference as people should have been retarding their speed regardless.

There may also have been advisory 40mph signs on the motorway in that area (I didn't see any further up beyond J23) according to reports, though people often ignore them due to the muppets that run them leaving them up way beyond their usefulness window, causing complacency.

* I saw plenty of fog all the way from J23 as I was directed off the motorway down to J25 and beyond as I negotiated the A roads around the incident. Some of it too thick to drive beyond crawling speed.

[dazza12]

Google maps


Looks pretty close to me.

The club own most of the land leading up to the motorway. However, the location of the bonfire was further away. I've walked it several times in the past and it's taken a good few minutes. And I'm a fairly large bloke so I don't move that fast!

Speaking of which, whilst driving around the area south of Taunton and Chard earlier today I came across several very thick patches of fog - in particular the area around Axminster. Had to slow down considerably as I couldn't see much further than about 10m, a few patches like this lasting a couple of hundred metres. Bearing in mind conditions down here were very similar to on Friday, it's very feasible that the smoke just darkened it.

I've also heard some stories about some people hitting the accident at the white fog stage, getting out of the car and finding other vehicles already on fire with black smoke. In particular a family in a van who were interviewed on Daybreak this morning (and currently on Sky News) described this very scenario. Speaking to a former colleague who was at the display he confirms the smoke was drifting very slowly in the opposite direction so although plod are currently investigating I am still of the opinion that the club will be shown to be innocent - however I think they'll voluntarily either move the event further or cancel it altogether for next year.

Speaking of distractions - the bridge just up from the accident is full of satellite trucks, Sky, BBC, ITV and others along with cameras pointing towards the accident. Surely another distraction?

[dazza12]

Maybe a severe collision, such as a car belting into the side of a truck at speed would be enough to ignite the diesel tank(s) on the truck?

I may have the accident name itself wrong, but didn't this happen in Ladbroke Grove? The particular accident I'm referring to was the one where a goods train crossed in front of an express and the diesel ignited.

[TimberWolf]

It sounds as if cars slowed down due to much reduced visibility and lorries (or cars) jackknifed behind when they came upon them. The irony of that scenario is that if everyone were to drive like a loony the accident wouldn't have happened. This driving philosophy works most days anyway.