Harperson proposes sexual discrimination in the workplace

[EternalOptimist]

But that's the point. Women should not have to prove their worth any more than men should. Why is it we (men and women) view female traits as negative? No-one wants their son to be described as 'a bit girly' but it's fine to say your daughter is a tom-boy - more than fine, it's a positive characteristic. Nothing wrong with a bit of banter, but it's the underlying, deeply ingrained attitudes that need changing. Agree that sueing is rarely the answer, but to dimiss women as 'whining' isn't doing any of us any favours.

I have heard a lot of male traits discussed by females in an equally negative way.

Man Flu
Needs to wear blinkers in the summer
sucker for a pretty smile

[mudskipper]

I have heard a lot of male traits discussed by females in an equally negative way.

Man Flu
Needs to wear blinkers in the summer
sucker for a pretty smile

Google only returns half the number of results for 'bird flu' as for 'man flu'. More discrimination - pah!

[doodab]

it's the underlying, deeply ingrained attitudes that need changing.

Do they though? Sure some things might need tweaking but the underlying acknowledgement that men and women are different and have different strengths and weaknesses is sound.

[mudskipper]

Do they though? Sure some things might need tweaking but the underlying acknowledgement that men and women are different and have different strengths and weaknesses is sound.

I think the problem is the perception of these differences mean that for women to succeed in the workplace they have to behave like men.

The theoretical opportunities for equality exists, but in practice business is geared much more towards the perceived male 'strengths' than female.

Probably coming over much more feminist than I actually am here - personally I haven't felt 'discriminated' against since 1986 when I was turned down for a comms job because crawling under floors wasn't a suitable job for a 'young lady'! But I do think it's important to think about why so few women succeed and question our underlying attitudes that makes it so difficult.

[EternalOptimist]

I think the problem is the perception of these differences mean that for women to succeed in the workplace they have to behave like men.

The theoretical opportunities for equality exists, but in practice business is geared much more towards the perceived male 'strengths' than female.

Probably coming over much more feminist than I actually am here - personally I haven't felt 'discriminated' against since 1986 when I was turned down for a comms job because crawling under floors wasn't a suitable job for a 'young lady'! But I do think it's important to think about why so few women succeed and question our underlying attitudes that makes it so difficult.

well assuming that both sexes are equal when it comes to running a big business, it is a bit of a worry that one sex is so vastly under represented.

maybe they are not equal. is that a possibility ?

[wim121]

God I hate Harman, what's her problem? She wants to teach kids that all boys are potential rapists and all this crap.


I really hate how society is so geared towards women nowadays. For people like her to whine about this in ubelievable, Men have a far harder time nowadays socially and in the workplace. Instead of tackling sexism, past feminists started the trend of positive discrimination, making vendettas against men.



I think its quite sad in society;
- That I can walk down the street, with a smile and say "good day" to a random man, yet I have to put my head down and ignore a woman, just in case I get seen as a predator just for extending social courtesy (experienced that before).
- I have to avoid women walking through the same door as me, as if I dont hold it open, Im disgusting and not a gentleman, yet if I do, Im a predator that's about to rape them and insinuating they are incapable or too weak to hold a door open (experienced that too).
- If I see a child crying in the street because it's lost it's parent, I have to make the nearest female aware, otherwise people might accuse me of being a paedophile, ignoring the fact some paedophiles are married to female ones and often the female abducts them without people raising an eyebrow (seen other men approach a child and get treated like an abducter when all they did is point the child to a lost shelter and try to help them find its mother). It's sad that I have to walk away and ignore a lost child because of societies unfounded sexism.
- In the past if I see an attractive woman, I cant approach her easily (as from experience) there are crazy feminists out there that treat you like a predator just for being nice. However men are still expected to initiate contact/conversation, so how do I tell which one is a crazy or normal woman? In bars, you need a green/red badge system.
- In the workplace, there are some women you have to be very careful around and word everything in a very PC way. There are some women you cant even refer to as women because they throw a hissy fit, seriously!
- On the issue of harrasment, should a man misread the signals and stupidly chat up a coworker, they get fired. Yet in the past Ive been subjected to women groping me and generally being "hands on" without my consent at all. Yet if you ever complain, you get met with comments such as "men cant be harrased" or "I bet you didnt mind" and nothing gets done.
- Throughout all adult years, Ive overheard womens discussions in the workplace, clearly talking in an obscene way about men, a worse way then men talk about women down the pub. Nobody bats an eyelid. How can women be so cruel and talk about penis's, etc, yet if a man brings up the subject of breasts, they're a vile sex offender?
- It gets even worse when we discuss issues like rape. Now I hate rape and dont even like to see it in films and I sympathise deeply for any victim. Yet nowadays there are a lot of cases where women use it as a vindictive tool which diminishes real victims experience. Men still cant report it as it isnt taken seriously. One man I know reporting such an event got comments from people such as "it's impossible for a man to be raped". Same thing again, nobody bats an eyelid at such comments or sympathises at all. If I said the same thing about rape victim that was female, Id be strung up by my genitals on the nearest fence as an inhumane beast.
- Then social issues like housewives/househusbands. The latter is viewed as some guy jacking off to porn everyday, yet nobody insinuates the same thing with the former. Tell a guy to go and earn the bacon to buy a girl pretty things, everyone cheers in agreement, yet tell a woman to make a sandwich for her man and everyone boos him for such a bad joke, god help such a man if he is serious.

Anyway, rant nowhere near over, but the very subject annoys me. Any woman who DARES to complain about sexism makes me infuriated to the point I have to walk away before doing or saying something I might regret.

Women have a very easy ride in modern society and times have well and truly changed in the past two decades. Gone are the days of even IT being a boys club. Ive worked in many places with women as my bosses in IT. In finacial institutions as well for instance, most of the bosses were women. In short, that report is just further sexist crap. Yet what else would we expect from that vile excuse, not just for a woman, but a vile excuse for a human being.

[EternalOptimist]

God I hate Harman, what's her problem? She wants to teach kids that all boys are potential rapists and all this crap.


I really hate how society is so geared towards women nowadays. For people like her to whine about this in ubelievable, Men have a far harder time nowadays socially and in the workplace. Instead of tackling sexism, past feminists started the trend of positive discrimination, making vendettas against men.



I think its quite sad in society;
- That I can walk down the street, with a smile and say "good day" to a random man, yet I have to put my head down and ignore a woman, just in case I get seen as a predator just for extending social courtesy (experienced that before).
- I have to avoid women walking through the same door as me, as if I dont hold it open, Im disgusting and not a gentleman, yet if I do, Im a predator that's about to rape them and insinuating they are incapable or too weak to hold a door open (experienced that too).
- If I see a child crying in the street because it's lost it's parent, I have to make the nearest female aware, otherwise people might accuse me of being a paedophile, ignoring the fact some paedophiles are married to female ones and often the female abducts them without people raising an eyebrow (seen other men approach a child and get treated like an abducter when all they did is point the child to a lost shelter and try to help them find its mother). It's sad that I have to walk away and ignore a lost child because of societies unfounded sexism.
- In the past if I see an attractive woman, I cant approach her easily (as from experience) there are crazy feminists out there that treat you like a predator just for being nice. However men are still expected to initiate contact/conversation, so how do I tell which one is a crazy or normal woman? In bars, you need a green/red badge system.
- In the workplace, there are some women you have to be very careful around and word everything in a very PC way. There are some women you cant even refer to as women because they throw a hissy fit, seriously!
- On the issue of harrasment, should a man misread the signals and stupidly chat up a coworker, they get fired. Yet in the past Ive been subjected to women groping me and generally being "hands on" without my consent at all. Yet if you ever complain, you get met with comments such as "men cant be harrased" or "I bet you didnt mind" and nothing gets done.
- Throughout all adult years, Ive overheard womens discussions in the workplace, clearly talking in an obscene way about men, a worse way then men talk about women down the pub. Nobody bats an eyelid. How can women be so cruel and talk about penis's, etc, yet if a man brings up the subject of breasts, they're a vile sex offender?
- It gets even worse when we discuss issues like rape. Now I hate rape and dont even like to see it in films and I sympathise deeply for any victim. Yet nowadays there are a lot of cases where women use it as a vindictive tool which diminishes real victims experience. Men still cant report it as it isnt taken seriously. One man I know reporting such an event got comments from people such as "it's impossible for a man to be raped". Same thing again, nobody bats an eyelid at such comments or sympathises at all. If I said the same thing about rape victim that was female, Id be strung up by my genitals on the nearest fence as an inhumane beast.
- Then social issues like housewives/househusbands. The latter is viewed as some guy jacking off to porn everyday, yet nobody insinuates the same thing with the former. Tell a guy to go and earn the bacon to buy a girl pretty things, everyone cheers in agreement, yet tell a woman to make a sandwich for her man and everyone boos him for such a bad joke, god help such a man if he is serious.

Anyway, rant nowhere near over, but the very subject annoys me. Any woman who DARES to complain about sexism makes me infuriated to the point I have to walk away before doing or saying something I might regret.

Women have a very easy ride in modern society and times have well and truly changed in the past two decades. Gone are the days of even IT being a boys club. Ive worked in many places with women as my bosses in IT. In finacial institutions as well for instance, most of the bosses were women. In short, that report is just further sexist crap. Yet what else would we expect from that vile excuse, not just for a woman, but a vile excuse for a human being.

typical bloke

sitting on the fence

[wim121]

Probably coming over much more feminist than I actually am here - personally I haven't felt 'discriminated' against since 1986 when I was turned down for a comms job because crawling under floors wasn't a suitable job for a 'young lady'!

Nowadays you could sue and get a generous payout

Times have changed. The other half was working with me on a switch upgrade back in 2005 IIRC. Nobody batted an eyelid or made any comments.

She's been working in IT for years now. She has actually got IT jobs in places like schools and other venues as the employer prefers a female candidate, even though she was less qualified than other candidates ...

But I do think it's important to think about why so few women succeed and question our underlying attitudes that makes it so difficult.

I think that's the most important question.

I would say gender has absoloutely nothing to do with it to be honest. Ive worked in places where women have been promoted very quickly, because their work was good and they knew how to play office politics. Conversely, Ive known many men to work at the same place for decades, always knocked back for promotion. It's all about attitude and commitment to the work.

Also in another sense, I would presume some women may shy away from a position of power if offered it, as some men do. I knew a guy who always refused promotions and one day discussing it, I asked him why and he explained how he loved his work and didnt want to be filling in paperwork and pigeonholed in to a managerial position and have to have that power over his friends. Maybe some women are perfectly happy in their work and dont want to be forced in to management.

[wim121]

typical bloke

sitting on the fence

Care to elaborate?

[EternalOptimist]

Care to elaborate?

the way I understand it, the post is about women getting into the top jobs.

not the middling jobs.


my argument is that the assumption that there is sexual equality at that level has never been examined (here at least)

and there are clever enough women here to make their case