Which PM course to take up. Switch from Techie to PM.

[sasguru]

I'll show my arse in Trafalgar Square.

Last time that happened people thought it was a full solar eclipse.

[SofaKingdom]

If it's money you're looking for then PM gigs pay nowt much these days.

I haven't seen a techie gig that pays more than programme or interim management in the last 10 years.

[doodab]

I haven't seen a techie gig that pays more than programme or interim management in the last 10 years.

That's because the UK is full of managers with no understanding of the craft of software development who think that techies should be cheap as chips and can't tell a good one from a bad one. It's the same mindset that gave rise to the tesco extra value sausage.

[SofaKingdom]

That's because the UK is full of managers with no understanding of the craft of software development who think that techies should be cheap as chips and can't tell a good one from a bad one. It's the same mindset that gave rise to the tesco extra value sausage.

I don't make the rules but surely if the UK is so full of these skills then simple laws of supply and demand would make the rates for these roles very low and that is simply not the case?

[doodab]

I don't make the rules but surely if the UK is so full of these skills then simple laws of supply and demand would make the rates for these roles very low and that is simply not the case?

Which skills? The ones that have overseen wholesale outsourcing of corporate IT to predominately foreign firms who often fail to deliver what was expected? Or the ones that have seen the bulk of public sector IT projects cost more and deliver less than planned?

[SofaKingdom]

Which skills? The ones that have overseen wholesale outsourcing of corporate IT to predominately foreign firms who often fail to deliver what was expected? Or the ones that have seen the bulk of public sector IT projects cost more and deliver less than planned?

Are you drunk? I never mentioned outsourcing or off-shoring. Last I read we were talking about program and interim management paying more than techie skills and you claimed there were an abundance of these skills about If that's the case, rather than debate outsourcing, explain to me why these roles offer better rates than "craftsmen."

[doodab]

Are you drunk? I never mentioned outsourcing or off-shoring. Last I read we were talking about program and interim management paying more than techie skills and you claimed there were an abundance of these skills about If that's the case, rather than debate outsourcing, explain to me why these roles offer better rates than "craftsmen."

You have misunderstood what I said. I meant that a significant proportion of IT managers have little technical understanding and are unable to judge quality effectively, hence they shop purely on price, thus increasing the demand for low cost technical people.

I would also contend that although the average rate for a programme manager might be higher, the volume of such roles is significantly lower than for technical jobs and were one to cherry pick a comparable amount of senior technical roles you'd find the rates were a lot more similar.

[SofaKingdom]

You have misunderstood what I said. I meant that a significant proportion of IT managers have little technical understanding and are unable to judge quality effectively, hence they shop purely on price, thus increasing the demand for low cost technical people.

I would also contend that although the average rate for a programme manager might be higher, the volume of such roles is significantly lower than for technical jobs and were one to cherry pick a comparable amount of senior technical roles you'd find the rates were a lot more similar.

I understood what you said, it isn't the same as what you say above although it might be what you meant. I maintain however that you are incorrect. An IT Manager is not a Programme or Interim Management contractor for a start. To blame poor rates for technical skills on the lack of judgement of those in IT Management roles is naive to say the least. There are many factors for this, most far bigger than the one you mention. Besides, technical people need to realise it's money/sales that make the world go round, not some fantastically crafted piece of code. Lastly, I disagree on the rates bit but agree on quantity of roles.

[doodab]

I understood what you said, it isn't the same as what you say above although it might be what you meant. I maintain however that you are incorrect. An IT Manager is not a Programme or Interim Management contractor for a start.

Neither is a plumber, but I believe we can compare the rates for plumbers with those for programme managers & IT contractors.

To blame poor rates for technical skills on the lack of judgement of those in IT Management roles is naive to say the least. There are many factors for this, most far bigger than the one you mention. Besides, technical people need to realise it's money/sales that make the world go round, not some fantastically crafted piece of code.

IT is generally (and rightly) perceived as a cost, it doesn't generate revenue. As with most costs, businesses want to reduce it as much as possible, and this frequently results in false economies, such as entering into unsuitable outsourcing deals because they seem cheap, but result in disruption to the business, or corner cutting in development that saves money early on but results in expensive rework later on. Someday the management responsible may come to realise that using the cheapest technical staff doesn't automatically mean you'll achieve the lowest cost, but until then downward pressure on rates will continue.

Well designed and implemented IT systems might not make the world go round, but it's hardly naive to know that doing a job properly the first time will save you having to do it twice, or understand that a little bit of foresight at the birth of something that might have to evolve and integrate with as yet unimagined other systems for 5-10 years can save a lot of hassle (and time and money) later on.

Lastly, I disagree on the rates bit but agree on quantity of roles.

Well, what sort of rates are you talking about? And how many billable days per year can such a bod achieve?