In denial

[Green Mango]

You're missing the point. Under a Tory government there would not have been a dossier because there would not have been a vote.

Exactly the Tories were only persuaded to go to war by Labour ministers say we could be hit by Iraqi missiles in 45 minutes and the rest of the lies.

Thus Tory government would have had no war.

Now finaly I think we should agree to disagree....

[Joe Bloque]

It's never good for democracy when it becomes almost impossible to get rid of a government.

Can't agree more. But I don't agree with NicCam on 5 year definite parliament either. I want to have the option to kick'em out whenever I(we) want to. But please, dont sell me stable govt bull tulip.

[centurian]

Can't agree more. But I don't agree with NicCam on 5 year definite parliament either. I want to have the option to kick'em out whenever I(we) want to. But please, dont sell me stable govt bull tulip.

Yeah, I'm still on the fence on this one. It's not like we have ever had the option to kick them out before their time anyway.

Fixed terms aren't a bad idea. The PM has previously held a huge advantage by being able to call the election whenever he/she saw fit. This levels it up a bit.

However a 5 year fixed term seems a long time. 4 years would be better, but the coalition is going for 5 years because 4 years from now, the pain of the cuts will be very fresh in people's memories.

[Ruprect]

Damn, I was hoping this thread was going to be about your holidays in Egypt.

[swamp]

If the Tories were in power in 2002/2003, then Labour would have massively opposed an Iraq invasion. It's hard to say whether the Tories would have pressed ahead with the war without at least some cross-party support.

[doodab]

Exactly the Tories were only persuaded to go to war by Labour ministers say we could be hit by Iraqi missiles in 45 minutes and the rest of the lies.

Thus Tory government would have had no war.

There are numerous attributable quotes and newspaper reports, both from the time and later, making it quite clear that the American position did not depend on UK support. It really wasn't a question of "whether we have a war" it was a question of "whether we will join them". The idea that a war in Iraq could have been avoided if it wasn't for that nasty Mr Blair is absolutely ridiculous.

As regards the Tories, it wasn't them who needed persuading, it was the labour back benches. You might like to think that the Tories wouldn't have committed British troops but the reality is that IDS fully backed a war, even suggesting an invasion before the dossier's publication, and Cameron has also stated that the WMD claims were not the sole reason he supported the war.

I'm not suggesting that Blair & co didn't manipulate the truth, simply pointing out that there would have been a war in Iraq anyway. But you keep on kidding yourself if it helps you sleep.

[Green Mango]

There are numerous attributable quotes and newspaper reports, both from the time and later, making it quite clear that the American position did not depend on UK support. It really wasn't a question of "whether we have a war" it was a question of "whether we will join them". The idea that a war in Iraq could have been avoided if it wasn't for that nasty Mr Blair is absolutely ridiculous.

As regards the Tories, it wasn't them who needed persuading, it was the labour back benches. You might like to think that the Tories wouldn't have committed British troops but the reality is that IDS fully backed a war, even suggesting an invasion before the dossier's publication, and Cameron has also stated that the WMD claims were not the sole reason he supported the war.

I'm not suggesting that Blair & co didn't manipulate the truth, simply pointing out that there would have been a war in Iraq anyway. But you keep on kidding yourself if it helps you sleep.

Your position seem to deny the Labour parties responsibility and instead use the defense well if LAbour hadn't done it someone else would have.

I'm afraid you are the type of Labour part supporter who can admit no fault although I know many who readily admit that the Iraq war was a treasonous act by the LAbour cabinet of the time.

[doodab]

Your position seem to deny the Labour parties responsibility and instead use the defense well if LAbour hadn't done it someone else would have.

I'm afraid you are the type of Labour part supporter who can admit no fault although I know many who readily admit that the Iraq war was a treasonous act by the LAbour cabinet of the time.

A couple of places where your blinkers are getting in the way there.

I'm not a labour supporter.

I'm not saying Blair and co played no part. But to suggest that the responsibility lies solely with him or labour is bollocks. You seem to forget the labour party provided most of the votes against going to war, and overlook the fact that the Tories supported it wholeheartedly. You also seem unable to comprehend that Britain no longer rules the world and couldn't have prevented this war.

You I think are the sort of blinkered idiot who voted Tory because they aren't labour and has no idea what you actually voted for.

should have voted lib dem

[Scrag Meister]

She votes Labour, I vote Tory. Go figure.

Same in my house, but then she was bought up in Wales when all the mines shut down and Arthur Scargill was on the rampage.

[Scrag Meister]

I see that JP Morgan are sabre rattling again over their site in docklands.

Do you have a link re this HAB?