How do you stop/control immigration?

[TimberWolf]

No, it's true. Lots of Germans don't care for buying a house even though they can afford it.

Most? ... Lot's?

Evidence?

As mentioned their tenancy laws are different though. I don't know the in's and out's of it though. AtW would know

[OwlHoot]

Most? ... Lot's?

Lot's what? His wife?

[Mich the Tester]

The biggest problem is legal immigration, so that's where we need to crack down. Jobless EU legals would then likely be better off where they came from from within the EU. Jobless third world people would be dealt with at the border on entry as in the past and those unemployed and already here will probably continue to operate here illegally until detected.

Jobless EU legals are allowed to stay for three months,and a further 6 months to look for work; they can sometimes transfer their rights to social benefits from one country to the next, but in practise that's so difficult hardly anyone does. After 6 months, if they can't support themselves they have to leave. I even have a document fro the Dutch immigration people saying that if I ask for income support I have to leave. It's a different case with those who've paid into the social security systems; they have basically the same rights as natives, because they've paid the same premiums. If you decide to take away benefits from EU legals, would you then waive the social security premiums for them?

Basically all you're saying has already been tried, and it's failed.

I don't know the answer. I studied spatial demographics, so I am burdened with enough knowledge of migration to know there's bugger all that can be done to stop it short of resorting to the sort of nasty methods that I wouldn´t want to see in a so-called 'civilised' society, or to building big walls and fences and making border controls so slow and strict as to seriously restrict trade and the economy.

Where I do criticise politicians is in failing to plan for altered migration patterns after they were advised by demographers to do so. Instead of listening to the advice of demographers and planning for greater numbers of moving people and allowing for and encouraging circular migration, they've pandered to populism, locked in the migrants who are here, introduced piles of regulation since WW2 and completely failed to get a grip on the issues. Instead, I would propose accepting that migration is going to happen, ensuring that people are able to come for as long as they need, return home and then come back as needed, plan the capacity of public services to account for the numbers who WILL need them instead of the numbers that need them now, and stop lying to the public that they can stop this phenomenon of migration. They can't, and any politicians who tells you he can is either a tyrant or a charlatan, and probably both.

[TimberWolf]

Jobless EU legals are allowed to stay for three months,and a further 6 months to look for work; they can sometimes transfer their rights to social benefits from one country to the next, but in practise that's so difficult hardly anyone does. After 6 months, if they can't support themselves they have to leave. I even have a document fro the Dutch immigration people saying that if I ask for income support I have to leave. It's a different case with those who've paid into the social security systems; they have basically the same rights as natives, because they've paid the same premiums. If you decide to take away benefits from EU legals, would you then waive the social security premiums for them?

Basically all you're saying has already been tried, and it's failed.

I don't know the answer. I studied spatial demographics, so I am burdened with enough knowledge of migration to know there's bugger all that can be done to stop it short of resorting to the sort of nasty methods that I wouldn´t want to see in a so-called 'civilised' society, or to building big walls and fences and making border controls so slow and strict as to seriously restrict trade and the economy.

Where I do criticise politicians is in failing to plan for altered migration patterns after they were advised by demographers to do so. Instead of listening to the advice of demographers and planning for greater numbers of moving people and allowing for and encouraging circular migration, they've pandered to populism, locked in the migrants who are here, introduced piles of regulation since WW2 and completely failed to get a grip on the issues. Instead, I would propose accepting that migration is going to happen, ensuring that people are able to come for as long as they need, return home and then come back as needed, plan the capacity of public services to account for the numbers who WILL need them instead of the numbers that need them now, and stop lying to the public that they can stop this phenomenon of migration. They can't, and any politicians who tells you he can is either a tyrant or a charlatan, and probably both.

Clearly it can be stopped, as if that were not the case approximately 5 billion people from the rest of the world would be enjoying our lifestyle now rather than their own. Your post above appears to be a strawman designed to be cut down rather than showing any interest in looking at restricting immigration.

[Mich the Tester]

Clearly it can be stopped, as if that were not the case approximately 5 billion people from the rest of the world would be enjoying our lifestyle now rather than their own. Your post above appears to be a strawman designed to be cut down rather than showing any interest in looking at restricting immigration.

No, because it seems most of the 5 billion choose to stay where they are.

I´m not saying ´restricting immigration´ is a bad thing. Clearly there is huge pressure on many countries´ social and economic systems as a result of migration. Trouble is, nothing that´s been tried has worked, in fact almost everything that´s been tried has made the problems worse, and the solutions being suggested are actually the same as have been tried for decades.

[TimberWolf]

No, because it seems most of the 5 billion choose to stay where they are.

I´m not saying ´restricting immigration´ is a bad thing. Clearly there is huge pressure on many countries´ social and economic systems as a result of migration. Trouble is, nothing that´s been tried has worked, in fact almost everything that´s been tried has made the problems worse, and the solutions being suggested are actually the same as have been tried for decades.

Opening the flood gates isn't the answer. We not set a limit on numbers?

[Mich the Tester]

Opening the flood gates isn't the answer. We not set a limit on numbers?

Fine, set a limit, but don't expect it to make any difference.

[TimberWolf]

Fine, set a limit, but don't expect it to make any difference.

No visa = difficulty finding a job and good chance of being detected = lower numbers. Simples.

[Mich the Tester]

Opening the flood gates isn't the answer. We not set a limit on numbers?

Fine, set a limit, but don't expect it to make any difference.

And I haven't said 'open the floodgates'. I've just asked how people think they can stop something which has gone on since Ug the caveman realised there wasn't much food in the area around his cave and set off walking to find somewhere better. I've not heard any suggestion that hasn't been tried already.

[Mich the Tester]

No visa = difficulty finding a job and good chance of being detected = lower numbers. Simples.

Yep, that's really stopped the Dutch meat processors employing illegals to provide you with cheap chickens. It's stopped the sex-slave trade. It's stopped all the illegals working in the harvests.

What you are saying exists already and hasn't helped at all.