Something been bothering me

[Numpty]

It's a sort of self deprecating jolly approach that makes the business treat us in IT wth contempt.

FTFY

'code monkey'. Charming. Is it any wonder they're importing unskilled foreigners on minimum wage to replace us? Well done.

What part of IT are you going to slag off as a "Business Analyst"? Or will that be "Stick man, circle and arrow scribbler"?

[jmo21]

Programmer -> BA is a strange move IMHO.

Programming is an advanced skillset used gig after gig, whereas the main skill of being a BA is either learning one domain incredibly well (ie banking) and staying within that domain, and/or the ability to pick up a new domain easily/quickly.

I agree about the tester being better suited for that move comment too. Testers generally in my experience have better overall domain knowledge as they usually work with the whole system, whereas programmers are more often limited to smaller parts of bigger systems.

just IMHO :-)

[suityou01]

Programmer -> BA is a strange move IMHO.

Programming is an advanced skillset moving from fad to fad, where if you don't have the latest .Net 4.0 shiny skills on your CV you get looked over for some 8 year experience rookie who does have it on their CV even though they only read about it on a cornflake box...

just IMHO :-)

It's because of my background in BPM systems. The development has been outsourced to the Ukraine. I am building the requirements specifications and tailoring them to the constraints of the BPM tool in question. That way we identify the constraints up front and not further down the line.

Numpty, it's immature vitriolic little upstarts such as yourself that give IT people a bad name. How could you address board level stakeholders with an attitude like that. IMHO of course.

[Numpty]

Is it any wonder they're importing unskilled foreigners on minimum wage to replace us? Well done.

It's because of my background in BPM systems. The development has been outsourced to the Ukraine.

Or, when not importing people, exporting the work in the name of holistic corporate efficiency. As I said, well done.

[suityou01]

Or, when not importing people, exporting the work in the name of holistic corporate efficiency. As I said, well done.

You keep congratulating me for something I had no hand in. Numpty I was a developer for a lot of years, and still may well take on development contracts if the money is right. I have many knife wounds in my back that are still healing from jealous peers to incompetent managers. I still manage to go about my business without being nasty.

For the record, I apologise to you for coining the term 'code monkey' This has clearly caused offence. I would suggest you try to grow a slightly thicker skin if posting in General, I've had to. That not withstanding, the apology is still heartfelt, and quite sincere.

I wonder if we can get back on topic now?

[PAH]

Programming is an advanced skillset moving from fad to fad

Yeah I'm getting tired of the .Net rat race, having to re-learn a skill every few years just because the corporate dominators want to force upgrades and cash in on the relicencing fees by reinventing how the wheel should be bolted together.

Funny how HTML has survived as basically the same for so long because it's out of their clutches, only needing to be updated to include advances in technology.


Sometime wish I'd been a plumber, plasterer or carpenter, skills and probably work for life.

[threaded]

Programmer -> BA is a strange move IMHO.

Programming is an advanced skillset used gig after gig, whereas the main skill of being a BA is either learning one domain incredibly well (ie banking) and staying within that domain, and/or the ability to pick up a new domain easily/quickly.

I agree about the tester being better suited for that move comment too. Testers generally in my experience have better overall domain knowledge as they usually work with the whole system, whereas programmers are more often limited to smaller parts of bigger systems.

just IMHO :-)

As a programmer you're pretty much stuck inside one domain too, either a business sector or a programming language. And which one is pretty much determined by what you did on your last contract.

[suityou01]

As a programmer you're pretty much stuck inside one domain too, either a business sector or a programming language. And which one is pretty much determined by what you did on your last contract.

In that respect I have been lucky. My first job was working for a thermal printing company. I was the programmer, who wrote all of the bespoke system integration type stuff. Loverly job til I outgrew it. Saw a lot of the country, different people, different business sectors.

I've worked in Automotive, Charity, Legal, Investment Company, Online Trading, Telcos, Three man bands and plenty more besides. I think that is why I think I make a reasonable BA. ClientCo thinks so, stakeholders think so. Developers think so. (at least that's what they tell me )

I recall one of the many PMs on here complaining his BAs were too territorial and would not muck in when needed. 'That's not my area of expertise' yada yada.

With my varied background I can usually lend a hand in most scenarios and am happy to do so.

[threaded]

Yeah I'm getting tired of the .Net rat race, having to re-learn a skill every few years just because the corporate dominators want to force upgrades and cash in on the relicencing fees by reinventing how the wheel should be bolted together.

Absolutely. I've done a contract where the system essentially did list processing, then number crunching and finally graphical display. Each part would be a simple job in a language designed for the purpose, but no, they have to use the one company mandated programming language, at a particular version number, and topped off with a barmy coding standard.

You know it is pointless trying to improve things when the clients programming standard mandates 'set' methods for immutable objects.

[Moscow Mule]

Being a programmer who actually understands the business, I can't see the need for a BA half the time.

Most of the time I'm explaining the latest structured derivative (or whatever) to the BA!