Darling to shelve NHS IT system

[stek]

Yes, I'll sign a contract to create a single central database that will hold medical data on all UK patients whilst allowing remote secure access to it by authorised personnel.

But what about your implementation of the Spine Directory Service for creating/authenticating users and endpoints? CMS for card cutting, UIM for roles, setting up messaging for Electronic Transmission of Prescriptions, it's more than just a database with patients stuff in. In fact the core of it is security and authentication, the DB bit isn't that hard, just big...

[AtW]

"£12 bln contract"... more ignorance.. it's not a single contract. there are multiple providers each with multiple contracts to provide multiple things.... it's a massive, complex programme...... not a "single database" on a "super-computer" that costs £12bn...

They have an "internal team", it's called CfH (Connecting for Health) and they are responsible for NPfIT.

Listen, nothing in IT related project for NHS should cost that much - end of story.

Sure, they made it massive complex program - this is the best way to milk taxpayer, £500 per day project managers etc, **** that. If it costs so much then pay same money to Royal Mail to courier around paperwork.

[Mr.Whippy]

I'd certainly not make billions out of it, but I'd say £10 mln is enough to implement it (pay people who do it) and buy hardware necessary to host it.

And you're basing all of this on what exactly?

You've no idea how of the volume of data that needs to be stored for a start. Don't tell me, you'd spend a few grand of that £10mn on a couple of 1Tb drives from PC World?

[stek]

"£12 bln contract"... more ignorance.. it's not a single contract. there are multiple providers each with multiple contracts to provide multiple things.... it's a massive, complex programme...... not a "single database" on a "super-computer" that costs £12bn...

From memory now u r correct there are loads of DB's and schemas, DSA, CSA, ETP, VPD, PDS, SUS, too many to list.

The Oracle RAC setup alone ran on four Sun F15K's ISTR...

[pzz76077]

The NHS's database requirements sound much like Amazons system with a few bits of other stuff thrown in: http://www.businessintelligencelowdo..._largest_.html

Its all been done before and for not much money.

PZZ

[Mr.Whippy]

Listen, nothing in IT related project for NHS should cost that much - end of story.

I agree, it shouldn't cost that much at all.

But, I'm just fed up reading your bilge on how all it needs is a single database and you'd be able to provide the same service for £10mn... That's just utter ignorance, you have no clue.

[AtW]

But what about your implementation of the Spine Directory Service for creating/authenticating users and endpoints? CMS for card cutting, UIM for roles, setting up messaging for Electronic Transmission of Prescriptions, it's more than just a database with patients stuff in. In fact the core of it is security and authentication, the DB bit isn't that hard, just big...

What you need to do is focus on a few key things that deliver 80% of benefits: patient record that is accessible via open protocols from any Internet capable terminal.

I take the following from BBC:

WHAT IS THE IT PROGRAMME?

1) The vision is for patients' records to be electronically available to any GP or hospital in England, thereby replacing local NHS computer systems

That's central database I talked about.

2.1) Other services include electronic prescriptions,

I had prescription once in NHS: doctor wrote on paper, I brought it to chemist, they did the thing. What's so fking hard in providing electronic equivalent of "amazon shop" when doctor "shops" and saves basket of medicine against PatientID? It's not rocket science.

2.2) an e-mail and directory service for all NHS staff

It should be trivial - even for 3rd largest army after the Chinese.

2.3) computer accessible X-rays and

Mainly storage issue -

2.4) a facility for patients to book outpatient appointments online

Trivial - linked to patient's central database, just web GUI

Can this possibly cost £12 bln? It can if the object of the game to milk the taxpayer.

[oracleslave]

And you're basing all of this on what exactly?

You've no idea how of the volume of data that needs to be stored for a start. Don't tell me, you'd spend a few grand of that £10mn on a couple of 1Tb drives from PC World?

I agree, it shouldn't cost that much at all.

But, I'm just fed up reading your bilge on how all it needs is a single database and you'd be able to provide the same service for £10mn... That's just utter ignorance, you have no clue.

WHS.

AtW you have displayed amazing ignorance and talked such utter tripe in this thread I am actually stunned.

[AtW]

You've no idea how of the volume of data that needs to be stored for a start. Don't tell me, you'd spend a few grand of that £10mn on a couple of 1Tb drives from PC World?

Last month we bought 40 TBs or so - not from PC world they are rip off, though in this case they'd look cheap.

We buy these:

http://www.dabs.com/products/hitachi...32mb-65TL.html

2 TB for £106.95, use 4U servers with 24 disk slots (we buy those), proper hardware RAID card with RAID6, let's say 4 disks for redundancy, so single server can hold 40 TB of RAIDed data, that's 615 KB per each of 65 mln UK citizens. Not a lot - but then again if you want to be smart you'd use good compression (especially for images), and you can get lots of such servers, say 1000 servers with disks will cost you less than £10 mln.

[AtW]

AtW you have displayed amazing ignorance and talked such utter tripe in this thread I am actually stunned.

I know something about implementing large scale databases on a shoestring budget.