Agents aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaarrrrrrrrgh!

[RichardCranium]

having done both and seen the alice in wonderland ethos of the public sector, i can understand why this is the case!

Having also done both and seen the "activity = progress" mentality of the private sector, I can also understand why it is the case.

As far as I am concerned, both the public and private sectors are as inefficient as each other, just for completely different reasons.

[mace]

As far as I am concerned, both the public and private sectors are as inefficient as each other, just for completely different reasons.

It depends, I think SMEs in the private sector are reasonably efficient, sometimes too efficient i.e. overwork. The problems grow as an organisation gets larger as there's less and less commitment to the organisation by the middle management.

[KentPhilip]

Many people in your position getting a public sector gig run screaming back to the private sector within their first two weeks.

Why is this? What puts them off?

[RichardCranium]

It depends, I think SMEs in the private sector are reasonably efficient, sometimes too efficient i.e. overwork. The problems grow as an organisation gets larger as there's less and less commitment to the organisation by the middle management.

And equally, I worked for a new, small, government agency in the 1990s which was efficient, friendly and filled with keen, co-operative working. Six years later it was large, back-stabby and process-bound.

[RichardCranium]

Why is this? What puts them off?

Wait at home for seven to 12 weeks to be told the gig start date then get "Be sure to arrive by 8:30 tomorrow morning, they start work early there."

8:25 ... 9:00 ... 9:30 ... 10:00 ... 10:30 ... 10:45 ...

"Oh, hi. Are you starting today then? We were told you couldn't start until next week. It's a shame you weren't here last week, we did a big induction thing for new starters. Oh well."

"Here is Fred, your primary helper."
"Hello, I'm Fred. I've been here 15 years and never done a day's work. That's the way I like it and there's nothing you can do to change that."

"Freda Bloggs is your primary contact - I suggest you phone her."
"Hello, may I speak to Freda Bloggs? Off sick you say? Any idea how long for? HOW LONG???"

"You want resources? They can be recruited in, ooh, six months."

"Before you can charge any time to your project you must have a charge code. To get a charge code you must get the business case signed off. To get the business case signed off, it must have approved financial authorisation. To get financial authorisation you need a budget on the financial system. A new budget requires a project number. You get a project number when your project plan has been signed off by the project board. You assemble a project board by arranging suitable meetings. Don't forget the invitees will need to know what to charge their time to otherwise they won't attend. So be sure to give them a charge code."

"Yes I know you spent 4 weeks putting together that risk log but we're now using Corporate Risk Tool so you'll have to do it again."

Arrange a meeting .... nobody turns up. "I just assumed it was an fyi. You have to say in the invite if you want me to attend."

Follow the documented process and get a bollocking because that process is out of date. Is there a new process? No. "Didn't you attend the induction? I'm sure it would have been mentioned there."

"You, a contractor, want a desk? "

"You, a contractor, want to work from home? "

"You want me to attend a progress meeting? Sorry, I'm working from home that day."

"To obtain a resource, fill in form 234/b/76/t."
Next day, same person: "Oh no, that form was replaced ages ago. Do it again on this form."
Next day, same person: "Oh, you want one of those. You are a contractor, you cannot order those."

"Before you do anything else you must submit a business case for an External Resource. That's you. Once it has been approved, you can start work here."

"Where's your yellow card? No, not your security pass, the yellow card. Get one off Jenny. No, I don't know here second name, nor where she sits."
Jenny: "You get those off HR."
HR: "Your agent should have sorted that. See Security."
Security: "Sorry Sir, I now have to escort you off the premises since you don't have a yellow card."

"We do not have a PC for you. No, you may NOT use your own PC on this site unless it conforms to the HMG security requirements. No, they are not defined yet."

"Hello Bill, my boss said I need to speak to you for an XYZ. Tell my boss that he's a stupid twat? So where do I get an XYZ? Yeah, well f*** you too."
Five minutes later in the boss's office: "I hear you offended Bill. He is VERY important because he's the Stores Manager's Assistant and he's the son of the Director's wife's brother. Do not do that again."

"Hey you! Are you authorised to use that fax machine? That's an HR fax machine. You have to use the ICT fax machine. I don't know. Telford, probably."

"This has to be done today? But it will take me a week. Say, have you really known about this requirement for five months? You git."

"Timesheets will only be signed on Friday afternoons or Monday mornings." The building is empty on Friday afternoons and Monday mornings except for contractors.

"Yes, you DO have to do the 12 two-hour e-learning courses on health and safety."

Boss: "Ignore what my boss said, he's always wrong."
Boss's boss: "You STILL haven't done it properly, idiot."
Boss's boss's boss: "Why can you consultants never get anything right?"

"All documentation must be stored in SharePoint on the project server. Yes, we know the project server doesn't work. But leaving that aside, all documentation must be stored in SharePoint on the project server."

"PRINCE2? How quaint. We only put that on the job ads because we're told to."

"OJEU? Can't you order the hardware, software and consultancy as separate items? We don't want to have to do the OJEU thing if we can avoid it."

"You've been using the room booking system? What you have to do is give Tiffany a muffin and she will do the room bookings for you."
Tiffany: "Yes, of course. Oh, it's an IT meeting. Are you a project manager? I see. In that case I need a packet of chocolate biscuits too. Yes, EVERY time. Yes, I am serious. Because if you don't, I'll get Jenny to cancel your yellow card."

Three months into the project it dawns on you that all you have achieved is:
- a corner of a table to sit at;
- identified a depressed colleague whose shoulder you cry on;
- but at least your project now has a name.

Shall I carry on?

[jmo21]

Wait at home for seven to 12 weeks to be told the gig start date then get "Be sure to arrive by 8:30 tomorrow morning, they start work early there."

8:25 ... 9:00 ... 9:30 ... 10:00 ... 10:30 ... 10:45 ...

"Oh, hi. Are you starting today then? We were told you couldn't start until next week. It's a shame you weren't here last week, we did a big induction thing for new starters. Oh well."

"Here is Fred, your primary helper."
"Hello, I'm Fred. I've been here 15 years and never done a day's work. That's the way I like it and there's nothing you can do to change that."

"Freda Bloggs is your primary contact - I suggest you phone her."
"Hello, may I speak to Freda Bloggs? Off sick you say? Any idea how long for? HOW LONG???"

"You want resources? They can be recruited in, ooh, six months."

"Before you can charge any time to your project you must have a charge code. To get a charge code you must get the business case signed off. To get the business case signed off, it must have approved financial authorisation. To get financial authorisation you need a budget on the financial system. A new budget requires a project number. You get a project number when your project plan has been signed off by the project board. You assemble a project board by arranging suitable meetings. Don't forget the invitees will need to know what to charge their time to otherwise they won't attend. So be sure to give them a charge code."

"Yes I know you spent 4 weeks putting together that risk log but we're now using Corporate Risk Tool so you'll have to do it again."

Arrange a meeting .... nobody turns up. "I just assumed it was an fyi. You have to say in the invite if you want me to attend."

Follow the documented process and get a bollocking because that process is out of date. Is there a new process? No. "Didn't you attend the induction? I'm sure it would have been mentioned there."

"You, a contractor, want a desk? "

"You, a contractor, want to work from home? "

"You want me to attend a progress meeting? Sorry, I'm working from home that day."

"To obtain a resource, fill in form 234/b/76/t."
Next day, same person: "Oh no, that form was replaced ages ago. Do it again on this form."
Next day, same person: "Oh, you want one of those. You are a contractor, you cannot order those."

"Before you do anything else you must submit a business case for an External Resource. That's you. Once it has been approved, you can start work here."

"Where's your yellow card? No, not your security pass, the yellow card. Get one off Jenny. No, I don't know here second name, nor where she sits."
Jenny: "You get those off HR."
HR: "Your agent should have sorted that. See Security."
Security: "Sorry Sir, I now have to escort you off the premises since you don't have a yellow card."

"We do not have a PC for you. No, you may NOT use your own PC on this site unless it conforms to the HMG security requirements. No, they are not defined yet."

"Hello Bill, my boss said I need to speak to you for an XYZ. Tell my boss that he's a stupid twat? So where do I get an XYZ? Yeah, well f*** you too."
Five minutes later in the boss's office: "I hear you offended Bill. He is VERY important because he's the Stores Manager's Assistant and he's the son of the Director's wife's brother. Do not do that again."

"Hey you! Are you authorised to use that fax machine? That's an HR fax machine. You have to use the ICT fax machine. I don't know. Telford, probably."

"This has to be done today? But it will take me a week. Say, have you really known about this requirement for five months? You git."

"Timesheets will only be signed on Friday afternoons or Monday mornings." The building is empty on Friday afternoons and Monday mornings except for contractors.

"Yes, you DO have to do the 12 two-hour e-learning courses on health and safety."

Boss: "Ignore what my boss said, he's always wrong."
Boss's boss: "You STILL haven't done it properly, idiot."
Boss's boss's boss: "Why can you consultants never get anything right?"

"All documentation must be stored in SharePoint on the project server. Yes, we know the project server doesn't work. But leaving that aside, all documentation must be stored in SharePoint on the project server."

"PRINCE2? How quaint. We only put that on the job ads because we're told to."

"OJEU? Can't you order the hardware, software and consultancy as separate items? We don't want to have to do the OJEU thing if we can avoid it."

"You've been using the room booking system? What you have to do is give Tiffany a muffin and she will do the room bookings for you."
Tiffany: "Yes, of course. Oh, it's an IT meeting. Are you a project manager? I see. In that case I need a packet of chocolate biscuits too. Yes, EVERY time. Yes, I am serious. Because if you don't, I'll get Jenny to cancel your yellow card."

Three months into the project it dawns on you that all you have achieved is:
- a corner of a table to sit at;
- identified a depressed colleague whose shoulder you cry on;
- but at least your project now has a name.

Shall I carry on?

are these all from personal experience?

[bobsyouruncle]

[RichardCranium]

are these all from personal experience?

Yes. A mixture of local government and central government.

It is probably a small fraction of 1% of the crap I've dealt with as a public sector project manager.

(But I can also go on for ages about my private sector experience...)

EDIT: I need to add in my own defence that I have received high praise from experienced programme managers and senior PMs and senior managers for getting projects to successful completion. That's despite the processes, PMOs, recalcitrant workforce and management.

And this relates to a different thread, but I can say I've never had a public sector worker threaten me with violence. They know their feet wouldn't touch the ground.

[Coalman]

Wait at home for seven to 12 weeks to be told the gig start date then get "Be sure to arrive by 8:30 tomorrow morning, they start work early there."

8:25 ... 9:00 ... 9:30 ... 10:00 ... 10:30 ... 10:45 ...

"Oh, hi. Are you starting today then? We were told you couldn't start until next week. It's a shame you weren't here last week, we did a big induction thing for new starters. Oh well."

"Here is Fred, your primary helper."
"Hello, I'm Fred. I've been here 15 years and never done a day's work. That's the way I like it and there's nothing you can do to change that."

"Freda Bloggs is your primary contact - I suggest you phone her."
"Hello, may I speak to Freda Bloggs? Off sick you say? Any idea how long for? HOW LONG???"

"You want resources? They can be recruited in, ooh, six months."

"Before you can charge any time to your project you must have a charge code. To get a charge code you must get the business case signed off. To get the business case signed off, it must have approved financial authorisation. To get financial authorisation you need a budget on the financial system. A new budget requires a project number. You get a project number when your project plan has been signed off by the project board. You assemble a project board by arranging suitable meetings. Don't forget the invitees will need to know what to charge their time to otherwise they won't attend. So be sure to give them a charge code."

"Yes I know you spent 4 weeks putting together that risk log but we're now using Corporate Risk Tool so you'll have to do it again."

Arrange a meeting .... nobody turns up. "I just assumed it was an fyi. You have to say in the invite if you want me to attend."

Follow the documented process and get a bollocking because that process is out of date. Is there a new process? No. "Didn't you attend the induction? I'm sure it would have been mentioned there."

"You, a contractor, want a desk? "

"You, a contractor, want to work from home? "

"You want me to attend a progress meeting? Sorry, I'm working from home that day."

"To obtain a resource, fill in form 234/b/76/t."
Next day, same person: "Oh no, that form was replaced ages ago. Do it again on this form."
Next day, same person: "Oh, you want one of those. You are a contractor, you cannot order those."

"Before you do anything else you must submit a business case for an External Resource. That's you. Once it has been approved, you can start work here."

"Where's your yellow card? No, not your security pass, the yellow card. Get one off Jenny. No, I don't know here second name, nor where she sits."
Jenny: "You get those off HR."
HR: "Your agent should have sorted that. See Security."
Security: "Sorry Sir, I now have to escort you off the premises since you don't have a yellow card."

"We do not have a PC for you. No, you may NOT use your own PC on this site unless it conforms to the HMG security requirements. No, they are not defined yet."

"Hello Bill, my boss said I need to speak to you for an XYZ. Tell my boss that he's a stupid twat? So where do I get an XYZ? Yeah, well f*** you too."
Five minutes later in the boss's office: "I hear you offended Bill. He is VERY important because he's the Stores Manager's Assistant and he's the son of the Director's wife's brother. Do not do that again."

"Hey you! Are you authorised to use that fax machine? That's an HR fax machine. You have to use the ICT fax machine. I don't know. Telford, probably."

"This has to be done today? But it will take me a week. Say, have you really known about this requirement for five months? You git."

"Timesheets will only be signed on Friday afternoons or Monday mornings." The building is empty on Friday afternoons and Monday mornings except for contractors.

"Yes, you DO have to do the 12 two-hour e-learning courses on health and safety."

Boss: "Ignore what my boss said, he's always wrong."
Boss's boss: "You STILL haven't done it properly, idiot."
Boss's boss's boss: "Why can you consultants never get anything right?"

"All documentation must be stored in SharePoint on the project server. Yes, we know the project server doesn't work. But leaving that aside, all documentation must be stored in SharePoint on the project server."

"PRINCE2? How quaint. We only put that on the job ads because we're told to."

"OJEU? Can't you order the hardware, software and consultancy as separate items? We don't want to have to do the OJEU thing if we can avoid it."

"You've been using the room booking system? What you have to do is give Tiffany a muffin and she will do the room bookings for you."
Tiffany: "Yes, of course. Oh, it's an IT meeting. Are you a project manager? I see. In that case I need a packet of chocolate biscuits too. Yes, EVERY time. Yes, I am serious. Because if you don't, I'll get Jenny to cancel your yellow card."

Three months into the project it dawns on you that all you have achieved is:
- a corner of a table to sit at;
- identified a depressed colleague whose shoulder you cry on;
- but at least your project now has a name.

Shall I carry on?

Sounds like most of the private sector utility companies I've worked for!!!

[RichardCranium]

Sounds like most of the private sector utility companies I've worked for!!!

Having worked for a water utility, I can see they are NOT private sector. They just like to think^H^H^H^H^H pretend they are. But their processes, mentality and working conditions are entirely public sector.