contract or perm?

[Rebecca Loos]

interesting point Franco, but flawed I think. Roles are not just defined in terms of skill but also in terms of short term and long term costs to the company.
Yes a contractor is more expensive in the short term. But not in the long term.

A company will fill a role with a contractor because they don't want to be lumbered with an employee after the project is over (companies usually underestimate completion dates).
Obviously they expect the contractor to be skilled and ready to go - another advantage

So an over supply of permies, even highly skilled, is not necessarily a problem for contractors. However, an oversupply of contractors is a big problem for us.

[swamp]

Also contractors' costs are often billed to a different cost centre than permies. At one site they imposed a recruitment freeze (on permies) whilst hiring dozens of contractors.

[Francko]

interesting point Franco, but flawed I think. Roles are not just defined in terms of skill but also in terms of short term and long term costs to the company.
Yes a contractor is more expensive in the short term. But not in the long term.

I reckon I see some flaws in that too. Indeed, a perm is supposed to be more expensive in the short term and cheaper in the long term. As a perm you are supposed to go through a period of 6 months 1 year of training, shadowing, etc. if the perm leaves after 6 months the company made a big loss on that. A contractor is actually a cheaper solution for a short term but in the long term is literally a waste of money no sensible program manager would do. Hence my doubt,how many here are real contractors or just money milkers at every opportunity? I.e. are you a real contractor if you stay in the same job for 5 years, get training, get involved in office politics, etc. etc.? If contracting means only making most of the money with the lowest effort without the prospect of company growth but just with your bank account as the only short term indicator of success,then only plumbers can be considered real contractors and indeed IR35 is perhaps a good law in discriminating what is a real business - building your company with a network of people and successful projects - and what is not -just take the money and run without giving any benefit to the business sector.

[Rebecca Loos]

well I may just be a money milker as you say (I don't resent that description, in fact I quite like it) but that seems to be benefitting what clients want - an uncomplicated resource brought to do a job and just that. For them, it's all benefit, as there are no associated and unquantifiable costs - it's very easy to see what I bring and how much I cost.

Back to the other point - I understand what you're saying. We just had different definitions of short term and long term. I say contractors are more expensive in the very short term (< 3 months) but cheaper in the longer term (6 months to a year). For the very long term, then yes - but only because contractors rarely outstay their welcome past the long term. OK, it does happen, but it's not the norm nor the average.

Contractors vs permies:

short term: contractor costs a lot of money but does the job. Permies are cheap but can't do anything

long term: contractor has gone and job is finished - works. HAs been paid off and doesn't cost anything any more. Permies are getting up to speed but need to be retained by the organisation and hence are starting to cost a lot of money

very long term: permie has been able to improve the process/product/department and is showing cost-busting benefits for the organisation

[zamzummim]

Rebecca, why do you always have this need to justify your existance?? we all know that most employers prefer permies, I know some very senior HR and PMs people and every single one will definitely exhaust every avenue to find an permie who have the needed skills and is available NOW before thinking of hiring a contractor. 90% of the time contractors are only brought in because the employer is desperate enough to get anyone now!! Plus most of the time they aim to replace the contractor as soon as they can, nevertheless there is a niche in the market and us contractors (IT tarts) are supplying for this need, nothing more nothing less... its business, so Rebecca no need for you to continuously compare yourself to permies.

Its like a WHORE comparing herself to a wife ?? yes the WHORE makes more money, but it’s the life style and who you want to do it with is what attracting wives to be wives and not WHORES like you dear !!

[Rebecca Loos]

quite like being a whore ta muchly
we do serve a purpose otherwise would we exist?
i am not trying to justofy my existence I am actually justifying it by being useful to my clients
actually my current client loves contractors and we are a team of 20 with 4 permies and 16 contractors. We all get on and get the work done. Like whores, it's straight down to business and that's what the client wants, pays for and is happy with. Thanks for listening

[Phoenix]

quite like being a whore ta muchly
we do serve a purpose otherwise would we exist?
i am not trying to justofy my existence I am actually justifying it by being useful to my clients
actually my current client loves contractors and we are a team of 20 with 4 permies and 16 contractors. We all get on and get the work done. Like whores, it's straight down to business and that's what the client wants, pays for and is happy with. Thanks for listening

How much are you charging him for listening?

[zamzummim]

quite like being a whore ta muchly
we do serve a purpose otherwise would we exist?
i am not trying to justofy my existence I am actually justifying it by being useful to my clients
actually my current client loves contractors and we are a team of 20 with 4 permies and 16 contractors. We all get on and get the work done. Like whores, it's straight down to business and that's what the client wants, pays for and is happy with. Thanks for listening

Quite right Rebecca, like a whore you get down to business, but no need to compare yourself to wife, a man needs a whore now and again, but that doesn't deminish his doesn't want a wife!! but like you said a man may think that the wife is cheaper than the whore, but in the long run ... perhaps a whore is cheapr??

[AlfredJPruffock]

Quite right Rebecca, like a whore you get down to business, but no need to compare yourself to wife, a man needs a whore now and again, but that doesn't deminish his doesn't want a wife!! but like you said a man may think that the wife is cheaper than the whore, but in the long run ... perhaps a whore is cheapr??

Reminds me a sign I saw in Thaliand outside of a brothel (needless to say was there purely for sociological research purpsoes )

Why Marry when you can rent ?

ts like a WHORE comparing herself to a wife ?? yes the WHORE makes more money, but it’s the life style and who you want to do it with is what attracting wives to be wives and not WHORES like you dear !!

Whoring is a very respectable ancient Profession, which cannot be said of housewifes.

Some argue that Marriage itself is tantamount to Instituionalised Prostitution, albeit a rather unexciting version.

Discuss.

[n5gooner]

How much are you charging him for listening?