Pension or buy-to-let?

[scooterscot]

I've got both.

Pension envelope / wrapper whatever you want to call it's all just a way of moving investments.

Get a tax planner/IFA to meet with once a year and discuss your portfolio, he or she should be talking about safely spreading you investments among several safe pots. Finance <it will recover you know>, property, services,

Like I started, I've got both... As James T Kirk once said 'I don't like to loose'

[bogeyman]

As James T Kirk once said 'I don't like to loose'

Just before Zeity came along and ate him

[DimPrawn]

Like I started, I've got both... As James T Kirk once said 'I don't like to loose'

He couldn't spell

[scooterscot]

He couldn't spell

Oh your just annoyed cause you were found out to be doubly stupid...

[Cyberman]

This is true.

However I'm sceptical on what the rules are going to be regarding SIPP in the future. I can see a Labour government stealing any money in a SIPP wrapper (under the guise of "fairness").

I can't see them stealing property. Then again....

It did !! They took my Northern Rock shares in my SIPP after giving a loan which the Rock has repaid, and are intending to value the company as if it was bust, and resell the company for a massive profit. Never trust shares !! Property will never be stolen by HMG.

Also, remember what they did to Railtrack for political motives when they stole the company.

[ASB]

The upside is mainly on the equity gains expected over 25 years or so. As far as rents are concerned you can get rental insurance for a two bed at around 100 quid a year. Rents would also tend to follow inflation. I have a friend that has two BTLs instead of a pension and is doing very well for himself, as he keeps telling me.

I'm not convinced. If you actually look at property prices over the last 25 years and factor in inflation you might find it is nowhere near as great as you think. Sure, there have been some spectular preiods in that - both upwards and downwards. However, if your strategy is long term buy and hold I doubt it has done much better than equities (of course I can cherry pick various periods in both to "prove" the point either way).

Personally I tend to view property as an income investment; purpose to produce an income which generally maintains pace with general inflation.

[ASB]

Also, remember what they did to Railtrack for political motives when they stole the company.

I wasn't much bothered TBH. But only because I had the luck - I mean foresight - to sell nearly all my holding fairly close to the peak.

Any way the liquidators sucessfully returned rather more than the then share price (which of course shows as fake the "insolvent" argument). However, given the ongoing changes since I do rather imagine Railtrack would probably be pretty much worthless now (bar it's land bank).

[Cyberman]

I'm not convinced. If you actually look at property prices over the last 25 years and factor in inflation you might find it is nowhere near as great as you think. Sure, there have been some spectular preiods in that - both upwards and downwards. However, if your strategy is long term buy and hold I doubt it has done much better than equities (of course I can cherry pick various periods in both to "prove" the point either way).

Personally I tend to view property as an income investment; purpose to produce an income which generally maintains pace with general inflation.

Independent analysis has confirmed that property has outperformed shares over the past 15 years. You only have to look at pensions to see the devastating effects of the high tax, high management costs and risks have on returns.

Property at least will always follow inflation, and the returns are normally tax-free. Then you also have a property to live in at zero rent throughout retirement if you wish not to sell. You cannot live in your shares.

[ASB]

Independent analysis has confirmed that property has outperformed shares over the past 15 years. You only have to look at pensions to see the devastating effects of the high tax, high management costs and risks have on returns.

Property at least will always follow inflation, and the returns are normally tax-free. Then you also have a property to live in at zero rent throughout retirement if you wish not to sell. You cannot live in your shares.

Your argument seems to have changed from "over the long term you'll do better with capital values of property than equities" to "well, never mind you can always live in it". This is, of course a valid point, it also demonstrates the point I made about property being traditionally an income generating asset (and living in it "rent free" is effectively the same thing in that it reduces the need for income).

[tim123]

Son is , hopefully, off to University next year and we are thinking of buying a btl to give him somewhere to live and rent out space to other students. Otherwise I am making the mst of the permie pension atm and chucking cash into an offeset mortgage account to get it paid off. Much better effective guarenteed return if you still have a mortgage than ISA's atm. And effectively tax free as well.

How is it tax free?

tim