Will Gordon Brown resign today ?

[LazyFan]

While the public vote for a party not the PM, that is bollocks in the real world. Labour lost to Thatcher because of Foot. Labour lost to the Tories because of Kinnock, the Tories lost to Labour because of Blair.

Actually you are totally wrong. Foot only became Labour leader in 1980 AFTER Thatcher came to power in 1979. Kinnock lost to Thatcher because he was too much like Blair and also the Falklands War saved Thatcher against Foot.

Kinnock then lost to Major as by then everyone could see he was useless (just like Blair). And Major played the card that he wasn't Thatcher who was going to lose the Tories the next election. Which is the real reason why they ditched her. And it worked as they won the 1992 election, even with Major as leader. Remember his image? Exactly he did not have one, which is how they presented him as differing from her.

When John Smith was elected leader of the Labour Party his popularity was higher than Blair ever archived in any opinion polls at any time. So, Blair was never as popular as people and the papers think he was.

Thus when Smith died in 94 and in 1997 The Tories were wiped off the face of the map by being rubbish not by right wing New Labour. The papers (who are right wing of course) claimed it was all due to Blair as he was their new right wing man.

In fact in reality it was due to the Tories being totally hated in the country, exactly like New Labour is today. That's why even though we all know Cameron is totally light weight, he will in fact win a massive majority just like Blair. Also to note is that at every election Labour have lost voters fast, if Blair was so, great he would have kept those voters. This is also why the Labour party got rid of him, as he would have lost the next election. Brown will lose it as he is just like Blair, there is no difference in policy.

The only person in that list above who actually won their party an election from being a proper leader who delivered what they stated they would do is Thatcher. However her policies also cost the Tories the 1997 election when the people rumbled Major that he was just like her (except for Europe of course).

Parties like to say it was this person or that person as it deflects from the fact that their party policies are flawed and unpopular. Thatcherism put the Tories in the position they are in now, Blairism will do the same for New Labour.

Apart from the obvious policy on Europe, Personally I cannot see the difference between Thatcherism and Blairism. It’s all the same old sucking up to the rich and the markets. What’s new here? Move along and so, they shall.

For leadership the real problem is party MP's can pick the leader before the members have a go. The way it should be done is MP's have no say whatsoever and the members of the party are the ones only allowed to pick their leaders.

[TykeMerc]

Very fair evaluation LazyFan.

[Menelaus]

Very fair evaluation LazyFan.

John Hutton leaving MoD.

[The Lone Gunman]

Very fair evaluation LazyFan.

Appart from the Tories under Major being ousted for being crap. They left the Country and the economy in the best state any Government has ever inherited.

[DimPrawn]

Appart from the Tories under Major being ousted for being crap. They left the Country and the economy in the best state any Government has ever inherited.

I don't recall the early nineties being particularly great? Lots of job losses, high interest rates, and house prices falling badly, lots of repossessions.

[The Lone Gunman]

I don't recall the early nineties being particularly great? Lots of job losses, high interest rates, and house prices falling badly, lots of repossessions.

Whatever you recall, ALL the press acknowledged that NL inherited a Country that was in the best stae ever handed over.
Certainly there had been a lot of pain, but the thinking at the time was that the pain was worth the result and that the Country and the economy would thrive for years to come becaue of the hard decisions made by the previous Government.
I think even soem of NLs own acknowledged this.

To be fair, it has taken Golden Clown nearly 12 years to **** it up.

[Churchill]

Whatever you recall, ALL the press acknowledged that NL inherited a Country that was in the best stae ever handed over.
Certainly there had been a lot of pain, but the thinking at the time was that the pain was worth the result and that the Country and the economy would thrive for years to come becaue of the hard decisions made by the previous Government.
I think even soem of NLs own acknowledged this.

To be fair, it has taken Golden Clown nearly 12 years to **** it up.

And great dedication he has shown!

[TykeMerc]

Appart from the Tories under Major being ousted for being crap. They left the Country and the economy in the best state any Government has ever inherited.

Plus the sleaze allegations, the fact that they appeared totally out of ideas, the poll tax debacle long term fallout, and a host of other minor issues not the least of which being that they had been in power far too long.
It's also arguable that the whole world economy was on a sizable rise at the time, the same rise that has crashed so spectacularly in recent months.

Sometimes I think that the Americans have the right idea with their rule of Presidents being limited to two terms as Labour have been in power far too long like the Tories were before them.

[The Lone Gunman]

Plus the sleaze allegations, the fact that they appeared totally out of ideas, the poll tax debacle long term fallout, and a host of other minor issues not the least of which being that they had been in power far too long.
It's also arguable that the whole world economy was on a sizable rise at the time, the same rise that has crashed so spectacularly in recent months.

Sometimes I think that the Americans have the right idea with their rule of Presidents being limited to two terms as Labour have been in power far too long like the Tories were before them.

That is exactly the point. They were not seen as crap. A media frenzy (similar to the expences debacle) is what killed them. The poll tax riots were engineered by the press and the opposition.
I am not sure running out of ideas is the same as deciding a light touch on the tiller is all that is needed.

We will never know what might have happened as we can not go back.

[Doggy Styles]

Actually you are totally wrong. Foot only became Labour leader in 1980 AFTER Thatcher came to power in 1979.

Totally wrong? No he wasn't.

Tony was talking about 1983, when Foot led a shambolic left-wing party in his own image. Foot threatened to take the country back to the old union-led days. His crushing defeat caused the start of great changes in his party.

Kinnock lost to Thatcher because he was too much like Blair

That's the first time I've ever heard that. He lost two elections. His triumphalism before the 1992 election (especially at the rally in Sheffield the day before) is universally accepted as having tipped a close-run thing. In 1987 I don't remember Kinnock being much like Blair at all. Blair had a charismatic reputation, Kinnock didn't. His nickname throughout most of his parliamentary career was the welsh windbag.