oh dear: Torture valid as it saves lives, says MI5

[Mailman]

The whole crux of what the woman was getting at is that its impossible to assure all information received wasnt tainted by torturing. Also, why tie your hands behind your back when the very scum you are fighting have no such issues

Mailman

[AtW]

Also, why tie your hands behind your back when the very scum you are fighting have no such issues

What's that -- Al Quaeda is now known to torture people big time to get state secrets?

[Not So Wise]

The whole crux of what the woman was getting at is that its impossible to assure all information received wasnt tainted by torturing. Also, why tie your hands behind your back when the very scum you are fighting have no such issues

Flip side of that argument though is, how do you defeat the enemy by becoming him?
We are susposed fighting for freedom, justice and liberty and all that jazz, so one has to ask what has torture, detainment without evidence or trial or murder got to do with that?
And even if you somehow manage to justify it, who is watching and controling those doing it in our name, and who is watching the watchers, to make sure none cross whatever imaginary lines we draw.?

History is jam packed with good groups of people who start doing bad things in the name of good and in every single instance it has always ended up the same way, the good guys become the greatest enemy of the very people they are meant to be defending.

[Mailman]

Flip side of that argument though is, how do you defeat the enemy by becoming him?

Didnt Sun Zu (or some other equally silly looking chingaling name) say "to defeat your enemy you need to become him".

And even if you somehow manage to justify it, who is watching and controling those doing it in our name, and who is watching the watchers, to make sure none cross whatever imaginary lines we draw.?

I dont think anyone is trying to justify torture...merely stating that there is no way to absolutely guarantee any information gained wasnt gained from scum who had their finger nails pulled off or new knee caps drilled for them.

Mailman