Fatal Nu Liebour mistake - not joining euro while economy was booming

[Doggy Styles]

why is it when someone cannot make a good case for the UK to join the Euro they are left with nothing else to do but accuse the antis as being "parochial"?

It is normally because reasoned argument is lost. Like calling anyone who wants to limit immigration a racist.

I can remember the days when the key factor in joining the euro was so that "One can buy a latte in Barcelona and Helsinki using the same banknotes."

[expat]

Because the scam didn't work?

I think it's because, if your economy is duff, tweaking the currency lets politicians pretend to the voters that they are doing something useful (when in fact they're making it worse). So the Lira was a joke all these years not because it had to be, but because Italian politicians made it so. They miss that.

[AtW]

If we entered the Euro we would be governed my the Central Bundersbank in Europe for our interest rates on our loans and mortgages for example.

And as if they give a damn about the welfare of British people.

Yes, those barstewards don't allow British people to get in debt up to their necks - probably outlaw credit cards!!!

It's a sad day for British Empire when people equate ability to get in debt with "wealth".

[AtW]

Why then do Germans and Dutch accept it, but Italians and Spaniards want their old money back?

It's the Germans who made to make biggest compromises in this matter - and the French too.

All UK had to do is fix good exchange rate at the right time, it's a lot easier to join such things during boom years.

[ratewhore]

Another example of a chinaman and a russian talking tulip.

Next...

[darmstadt]

Not too bad over here really...

WIESBADEN – As reported by the Federal Statistical Office (Destatis) on the basis of first calculations for October 2008, the number of persons in employment whose place of residence was in Germanyamounted to 40.84 million. That was an increase by 538,000 persons (+1.3%) on October 2007 and the highest number of persons in employment ever. But experience shows that it often takes several months for trend changes in the overall economic development to show on the labour market.

Compared with September 2008, an additional 219,000 persons who had their place of residence in Germanywere in employment in October. After eliminating the typical seasonal variations, the number of persons in employment in Germanyamounted to 40.41 million in October 2008. Against September 2008, that was a seasonally adjusted increase by 39,000 persons (+0.1%).

Based on the labour force survey, Destatis determines unemployment figures according to the concept of the International Labour Organization (ILO). According to provisional estimates, the number of unemployed amounted to a seasonally adjusted 3.04 million in October 2008. Compared with October 2007, unemployment was down by a seasonally adjusted 12.6% or by 440,000 persons. The seasonally adjusted unemployment rate – which is harmonised across the EU and measured as the share of unemployed in the total labour force – amounted to 7.1% in Germany and was thus notably lower than in the same month one year earlier (8.1%).

From Reuters:

BERLIN, Nov 25 (Reuters) - German consumer sentiment should improve slightly in December because shoppers have become less reluctant to spend money in spite of their deepening recession fears, the GfK market research firm said on Tuesday.
The Nuremberg-based GfK's forward-looking gauge of sentiment, based on a survey of 2,000 Germans, rose to 2.2 for December from 1.9 in November. Economists polled by Reuters last week had forecast a reading of 1.5 .
"The financial crisis may have reached the real economy, but on the whole is not affecting consumer sentiment," GfK said.
The rise was fuelled by an increase in the indicator's willingness to buy component (for November) to -6.7 from -18.2, as well as a gauge of consumers' income expectations, which jumped to -6.9 from -12.9 in the previous month.
These gains offset a renewed fall in a measure of consumers' economic expectations, which fell nearly three points to -30.1, the lowest since GfK began polling all Germany in 1991.
Because German household spending has seen little growth in recent years despite an economic upturn in 2006-2007, a number of analysts believe consumers could act as a relative anchor of stability for Europe's largest economy in the current crisis.
The economy entered a recession in the third quarter, though preliminary figures from the Federal Statistics Office indicate consumer spending had a positive impact.
Employment is at a record level, inflation is easing and the savings rate is at a 14-year high, offering some hopes for consumer spending, which accounts for nearly 60 percent of German gross domestic product (GDP).
GfK said that falling oil prices and a pay rise secured for the country's 3.6 million engineering sector workers this month had also encouraged shoppers to be more relaxed.
"As a result, the consumer climate was again able to successfully withstand the widespread recessionary trends towards the year end," GfK said.
Nevertheless, with the Ifo think tank's closely-watched gauge of business sentiment plunging to its lowest level in nearly 16 years on Monday -- after the latest GfK survey was conducted -- the outlook appears bleak.
"Whether the current improvement will be sustained in the coming months will primarily depend on how severe and sustained the recession is," GfK said. "The extent to which the labour market is affected by the economic downturn is crucial."
"Should the employment situation deteriorate again, with a significant rise in the number of unemployed, this would also have a lasting impact on consumer sentiment." (Reporting by Dave Graham; editing by Noah Barkin)

[DodgyAgent]

Yes, those barstewards don't allow British people to get in debt up to their necks - probably outlaw credit cards!!!

It's a sad day for British Empire when people equate ability to get in debt with "wealth".

If you want to have a debate about which country's economic policies are the best or worse than that is fine, have the debate on another thread. The point of the UK staying out of the Euro is that we make our decisions right or wrong on what economic policies are best for us. The lines of accountability between the governing powers and the people upon who's lives decisions affect are pretty straightforward.

You Europhiles can argue all you like about how wonderful Germany is (which it isnt), or how great the Euro is but if we joined the Euro our requirements would come below the pecking order of the well being of other states with us not having any democratic means with which to make changes.

[DodgyAgent]

It's the Germans who made to make biggest compromises in this matter - and the French too.

All UK had to do is fix good exchange rate at the right time, it's a lot easier to join such things during boom years.

If you like the Euro so much why dont you f**k off and go and live in a country that has the Euro as its currency.

[darmstadt]

why is it when someone cannot make a good case for the UK to join the Euro they are left with nothing else to do but accuse the antis as being "parochial".? If joining the Euro is no more than a question of whether one is "parochial" or a "cool European" then give me little England any day.

The UK is no more up "tulip street" than any other European economy, the difference being that we can set our own solutions (right or wrong) as we like, when we like. We dont have to wait for Germany or France to make their minds up, or hope that what they want to do is the same as what we want to do.

I think you'll find I was talking about the rather stupid little quote:

It's true, if UK joins the Euro it is only a matter of time before we are all forced to speak German, and have funny little moustaches too. Even the women-folk. Protect our women. Say "non merci " to Europe.

This is so typical British, you're already members of the EU yet no-one is foring you to speak German and they wouldn't if you were members of the EMU (the Euro banknotes do have writing in English on them if anyone had bothered to look.) Maybe by following the above 'parochial' sentiment the rest of Europe might not want the UK to join the Euro as then they would all have to wear their shirts outside of their trousers, take to bottling people in bars for looking at them funny and all the women would have to have love handles and wobbly breasts!

[DodgyAgent]

I think you'll find I was talking about the rather stupid little quote:



This is so typical British, you're already members of the EU yet no-one is foring you to speak German and they wouldn't if you were members of the EMU (the Euro banknotes do have writing in English on them if anyone had bothered to look.) Maybe by following the above 'parochial' sentiment the rest of Europe might not want the UK to join the Euro as then they would all have to wear their shirts outside of their trousers, take to bottling people in bars for looking at them funny and all the women would have to have love handles and wobbly breasts!

Fair point Darmstadt. There are indeed many sensible logical reasons for the UK not joining the Euro. Then there are the rednecks.