Plan b - buying a pub

[Bob Dalek]

What is the percentage of smokers now in the UK? 20% maybe? HOw many of those 20% would think "well since the ban i'm just going to drink in the house" 20% if that. So we are talking about 4% of the nation who have probably decided that since the smoking ban they are not going into pubs. The evidence points to a change of drinking habits.

Those stats... did you by any chance MAKE THEM UP ON THE SPOT?

[wurzel]

I agree with some of what has been said here. Certainly the smoking ban hasn't helped - all those non-smokers who were going to be flocking in in their droves have not shown up. As well as this though, it's just as much about the ruthless behaviour of the pub companies that own a lot of pubs these days. Our village local (which closed in July) was owned by a pub co and they completely screwed the landlord making him buy all his beer from them at grossly overinflated prices.
Whatever the reasons, I think it's an absolute f***g tragedy; going to the pub has always been such an important part of life for me - it's so much more than the booze. You just can't recreate it with a six pack from Tescos at home and I guess the lack of any breaks for the pub trade in yesterdays PBR coupled with the proposed reduction in alcohol levels for drivers will see thousands more close.

[Bagpuss]

I have noticed the fall in custom since the smoking ban, once packed pubs on a Friday and Saturday are half empty. The meat markets will always be busy butthe 4% of the population guestimate doesn't stack up. Most 'regular' drinkers were smokers and a pub survives on it regulars.

[BrilloPad]

I have noticed the fall in custom since the smoking ban, once packed pubs on a Friday and Saturday are half empty. The meat markets will always be busy butthe 4% of the population guestimate doesn't stack up. Most 'regular' drinkers were smokers and a pub survives on it regulars.

Like prostitutes in fact.

[minestrone]

Those stats... did you by any chance MAKE THEM UP ON THE SPOT?

With my careful use of question marks I think I displayed I made them up, I know that smokers made up 25% of the population in 2003, it must be close to 20% now. I know many smokers and have never met one who has told me they drink in pubs less because of the ban, I gave up smoking after the ban, so 20% of smokers not going to pubs is generous.

I think you will find that a 4% figure is not fantasy. Probably much higher than the truth but it's a figure that displays the stupidity of the smoking ban argument.

When you can go to the supermarket and buy 10 cans for a couple of quid then there is a large section of the nation that will drink in the house and not go to the pub, that is the real reason for the decline of the boozer.

[Bob Dalek]

With my careful use of question marks I think I displayed I made them up, I know that smokers made up 25% of the population in 2003, it must be close to 20% now. I know many smokers and have never met one who has told me they drink in pubs less because of the ban, I gave up smoking after the ban, so 20% of smokers not going to pubs is generous.

I think you will find that a 4% figure is not fantasy. Probably much higher than the truth but it's a figure that displays the stupidity of the smoking ban argument.

When you can go to the supermarket and but 10 cans for a couple of quid then there is a large section of the nation that will drink in the house and not go to the pub, that is the real reason for the decline of the boozer.

No. Cheap booze has been around for a long time - and by that I mean "el cheapo" cheap and "compared to a pint down the pub" cheap. The pubs were full and gasp! even actually in existence then; not now. I suppose the commensurate nose dive of the bingo trade is, likewise, down to online bingo, taxi fares having gone up, old ladies getting Sky telly, etc.? (No. It's the smoking thing, again).

[minestrone]

No. Cheap booze has been around for a long time - and by that I mean "el cheapo" cheap and "compared to a pint down the pub" cheap. The pubs were full and gasp! even actually in existence then; not now. I suppose the commensurate nose dive of the bingo trade is, likewise, down to online bingo, taxi fares having gone up, old ladies getting Sky telly, etc.? (No. It's the smoking thing, again).

Like people do not go to the cinema anymore because of the smoking ban? Despite DVDs, SKY movies, piracy and pay per view channels cinemas are doing very well.

It's more than the cost of booze I have explained while you were too busy typing crap, there is no longer a social stigma to drinking at home.

The smoking ban is just an excuse easily peddled by crap landlords who offer a very poor service.

[expat]

With my careful use of question marks I think I displayed I made them up, I know that smokers made up 25% of the population in 2003, it must be close to 20% now. I know many smokers and have never met one who has told me they drink in pubs less because of the ban, I gave up smoking after the ban, so 20% of smokers not going to pubs is generous.

I think you will find that a 4% figure is not fantasy. Probably much higher than the truth but it's a figure that displays the stupidity of the smoking ban argument.

I disagree.

I mean I disagree that you have statistically proved that the smoking ban argument is stupid. I do not know whether it is correct or not, but I think that your figures assume a statistical independence of probabilities, and a lack of second-degree effects, that is unlikely to be the case.

For example, if smokers made up 25% of the population in 2003, I'd have to say that they made up a considerably higher proportion of pub-goers.

You guess that the smoking population is now 20% smaller than it was, and from that speculate that the ban made people give up smoking rather than give up going to the pub; but in reality they may go together rather than being an either/or choice. I.e. having given up smoking, they may now find that they don't enjoy the pub so much, so they don't go. This is certainly my case: I gave up smoking many years ago, voluntarily; but having done so I found that I didn't enjoy the pub so much.

Again, you say that you know many smokers and have never met one who has told you they drink in pubs less because of the ban. that doesn't mean it doesn't happen, even with those same people. This is my partner's case: she smokes, and does not declare that she no longer goes to the pub because of the ban; but in fact it is so. She used to go a lot, and now never does, although she doesn't declare these as cause and effect.

I do not know whether the smoking ban has had a serious effect or not; but, with respect, I do not believe that you know either.

Edit: but I do tend to agree with some of your points (I just have an "argue" button linked to simplistic statistical arguments!)

[Bob Dalek]

Like people do not go to the cinema anymore because of the smoking ban? Despite DVDs, SKY movies, piracy and pay per view channels cinemas are doing very well.

It's more than the cost of booze I have explained while you were too busy typing crap, there is no longer a social stigma to drinking at home.

The smoking ban is just an excuse easily peddled by crap landlords who offer a very poor service.

Ho ho ho! Cinema attendance has been falling for a LOT longer than pub attendance. Also, it wasn't a case of, almost overnight, hundreds of cinemas closing down - contrary to pubs. Must try harder!

[minestrone]

Ho ho ho! Cinema attendance has been falling for a LOT longer than pub attendance. Also, it wasn't a case of, almost overnight, hundreds of cinemas closing down - contrary to pubs. Must try harder!

Actually cinema attendance have shot up from the low of the 80s when the video gave it a kicking, there are loads of new cinemas close to where I live. They simply went out and re-branded and gave a better service.

Like cinemas there are too many crap pubs that are now going to the wall and not because of the smoking ban, because they are crap and the prices are crap.