Baby P

[expat]

Official Secrets Act I would imagine. This is to protect our incompetent HMG, make no mistake!!

No, family law. Secrecy automatic, for protection of children's confidentiality: which makes sense in principle even if it seems to produce unexpected results sometimes.

[rhubarb]

I was unlucky enough to read the guardian yesterday.

I was unlucky enough to read the story on News of the World website yesterday. I was shocked beyond words, words still fail me.

[expat]

It is likely that the mother and both men were themselves abused as children and thus part of an unbreakable circle of degradation and violence.

I am afraid that Dodgy is probably right there. It would be more agreeable if it weren't so, because then we could all rant to our hearts' content knwing that we have identified the villains and it's only a question of whether they need hanging or a good kick up the arse. Also because it would mean that the pattern won't reappear. But it's not so simple, and it will.

[DodgyAgent]

I am afraid that Dodgy is probably right there. It would be more agreeable if it weren't so, because then we could all rant to our hearts' content knwing that we have identified the villains and it's only a question of whether they need hanging or a good kick up the arse. Also because it would mean that the pattern won't reappear. But it's not so simple, and it will.

Are children born evil? my view is that they are not (though I believe some might be mentally deranged) So what is it then that makes them evil?
My view is that it is the state that creates most of the evil people and most certainly the criminal and anti social elements of society.

The closer a child grows up to state institutions (welfare benefit parents, education, soial housing) the more likely that child is to fall into crime and f*cklessness. What is interesting is that the state then demands more tax in order to patch up (police, "sure start" prisons social workers healthcare etc) the problems that it creates in the first place. By spending more money the unintended consequence is that more people are then drawn into dependence upon the nanny state (no longer being able to pay for private education is one such example).

At the moment say about 25% of our income goes into welfare, education prisons, police etc. If we were to increase this spending to 50% of our incomes would our problems go away? No they would simply double.

[TimberWolf]

Are children born evil? my view is that they are not (though I believe some might be mentally deranged) So what is it then that makes them evil?

Some nature and some nurture. Some of what we will do is human and written in our genes and for the rest a child is a blank slate. One which is designed to test the limits of its environment.

[EternalOptimist]

Are children born evil? my view is that they are not (though I believe some might be mentally deranged) So what is it then that makes them evil?
My view is that it is the state that creates most of the evil people and most certainly the criminal and anti social elements of society.

The closer a child grows up to state institutions (welfare benefit parents, education, soial housing) the more likely that child is to fall into crime and fliplessness. What is interesting is that the state then demands more tax in order to patch up (police, "sure start" prisons social workers healthcare etc) the problems that it creates in the first place. By spending more money the unintended consequence is that more people are then drawn into dependence upon the nanny state (no longer being able to pay for private education is one such example).

At the moment say about 25% of our income goes into welfare, education prisons, police etc. If we were to increase this spending to 50% of our incomes would our problems go away? No they would simply double.

As usual with an argument, it's possible to stand it on its head.
Maybe its not the state creating these problems, maybe the state is just reaching out to where the problem already exists ?

[Cyberman]

No, family law. Secrecy automatic, for protection of children's confidentiality: which makes sense in principle even if it seems to produce unexpected results sometimes.

What is the point of protecting a child that is DEAD !!! This is to protect HMG, and it's just a shame that too many people are just too stupid to realise this.

[DodgyAgent]

As usual with an argument, it's possible to stand it on its head.
Maybe its not the state creating these problems, maybe the state is just reaching out to where the problem already exists ?

Look at evidence then. What do you think a survey of criminals would throw up? would they be mostly privatly educated middle classes at the one end or would they be the products of single parent, council house, welfare recipients?

what do you think?

[shaunbhoy]

If I hear the phrase "lessons must be learned" one more time amidst this shambles, I think I will scream. Quite patently lessons have not been learned, and some fooker's head should roll.

[shaunbhoy]

Look at evidence then. What do you think a survey of criminals would throw up? would they be mostly privatly educated middle classes at the one end or would they be the products of single parent, council house, welfare recipients?

what do you think?

DA,
you can't make sweeping statements. It upsets the proles!!