Russia cutting off oil?

[snaw]

I think my point about China buying energy (at least as much as they can) at cheaper than world prices has been proven comprehensively.

Case closed m'lord.

[sasguru]

I mentioned Africa in regards to previous metals that they get there - certainly not at world prices.

Ok, China buys lots of oil from Iran, the country that in many respects blocked from international affairs. Do you seriously think China pays full world price for this deal with Iran? It's certainly not the case in my view - prove me if it is with good references. If China was buying oil at world prices, why would they need to do it from Iran? The whole point from buying from those countries is that you get materials much cheaper.

http://www.chinadaily.com.cn/english...ent_387140.htm

"China's oil giant Sinopec Group has signed a US$70 billion oil and natural gas agreement with Iran, which is China's biggest energy deal with the No. 2 OPEC producer.

Under a memorandum of understanding signed Thursday, Sinopec Group will buy 250 million tons of liquefied natural gas over 30 years from Iran and develop the giant Yadavaran field."

Notice - this is a long term fixed price agreement, they don't pay market rates - they pre-agreed price for many years to come!

So, that's $70 bln for 250 mln tons of gas, that's $280 per ton. It's not oil but lets look at equivalence of energy sources - http://www.eppo.go.th/ref/UNIT-OIL.html :

"1 ton of LPG = 1.22 tonne crude oil"

1 ton of crude oil is about 7.33 barrels, so 1 ton of LPG is equivalent to 8.94 barrels, at current price of $115 this LPG at current world prices should have cost China not $280 they pay for it, but $1028 (nearly 4 times more - and I took current "low" oil price - calculate when oil is $150 yourself). See the difference? That's why Chinese deal with tin-pot countries and that's why they will never pay world price when taking on Russian oil, especially if they know Russia can't sell it elsewhere.

----

I think my point about China buying energy (at least as much as they can) at cheaper than world prices has been proven comprehensively.

From your link

"Iran is committed to export 150,000 barrels per day of crude oil to China for 25 years at market prices after commissioning of the field. "

So shut it atw or are you trying to join the Idiots Club again.

[sasguru]

Case closed m'lord.

Nah just atw making an arse of himself yet again.
Hoist with his own petard.

[DodgyAgent]

From your link

"Iran is committed to export 150,000 barrels per day of crude oil to China for 25 years at market prices after commissioning of the field. "

So shut it atw or are you trying to join the Idiots Club again.

what makes you such an expert? is 150,000 barrels the sum of Chinas consumption? is it the sum of its total imports from China? what stops China doing a deal over 30 years at a fixed price AND buying 150,00 barrels at market price. Or are you just too stupid to understand that there may just be many deals happening and that all the deals may relate to each other or may not?

[AtW]

From your link

"Iran is committed to export 150,000 barrels per day of crude oil to China for 25 years at market prices after commissioning of the field. "

So shut it atw or are you trying to join the Idiots Club again.

Retard, they have a variety of agreements some of which would be market price, I gave example of huge 30 years old deal that is currently running at 4 times lower than market price.

250 mln tons of gas is equivalent of about 2.5 bln barrels of oil over 30 years, that's equivalent of 228,311 barrels of oil per day. So yes, they pay (maybe) market price for 150k barrels of oil, but they get 228k at price 4 times lower, effectively they get overall half-price energy cost on this deal.

I mean, you'd need to be sasguru not to realise that China making deals with Iran won't be full market price deal - it's like saying that buying stolen goods will be at market values, no - the whole point of dealing with dodgy people is to get a lot lower buy price. That's why China is big in Africa that's why they deal with Iran - Russia, thanks to Putin, has become dodgy country too, much like Iran and China would love to buy lots of oil/gas from it - but not at market prices, which is my point.

[sasguru]

what makes you such an expert? is 150,000 barrels the sum of Chinas consumption? is it the sum of its total imports from China? what stops China doing a deal over 30 years at a fixed price AND buying 150,00 barrels at market price. Or are you just too stupid to understand that there may just be many deals happening and that all the deals may relate to each other or may not?

Ah was wondering when dopey would arrive.

Do you think the US or the UK don't do the same sort of deal for example by supplying Saudi with fighters/arms in exchange for preferential terms on oil?
Atw is trying to imply that the Chinese are uniquely clever in obtaining their oil at cheap terms and my argument is that the producers aren't that dumb - one way or another you'll pay the full dollar.
Now who do you think is being more realistic here?
Or are we supposed to believe that the Iranians are seliing cheap oil and foregoing revenue because they love the 4000 years of Chinese civilisation?

[AtW]

UK don't do the same sort of deal for example by supplying Saudi with fighters/arms in exchange for preferential terms on oil?

UK and USA buy oil from open market, even companies based in UK/USA who drill cheap oil sell it internally at market prices - no subsidies here unlike China where internally they don't have market prices for petrol - that's why they have to buy it cheap otherwise they risk big losses or causing social unrest (they already got some as they had to increase internal petrol prices this year).

[sasguru]

UK and USA buy oil from open market, even companies based in UK/USA who drill cheap oil sell it internally at market prices - no subsidies here unlike China where internally they don't have market prices for petrol - that's why they have to buy it cheap otherwise they risk big losses or causing social unrest (they already got some as they had to increase internal petrol prices this year).

You really are a moron, aren't you? The Chinese may not have paid in cold hard cash, but they pay in other ways.

You can bet Iran did not lose out in that deal compared to if they sold the oil to the US.

[DodgyAgent]

Ah was wondering when dopey would arrive.

Do you think the US or the UK don't do the same sort of deal for example by supplying Saudi with fighters/arms in exchange for preferential terms on oil?
Atw is trying to imply that the Chinese are uniquely clever in obtaining their oil at cheap terms and my argument is that the producers aren't that dumb - one way or another you'll pay the full dollar.
Now who do you think is being more realistic here?
Or are we supposed to believe that the Iranians are seliing cheap oil and foregoing revenue because they love the 4000 years of Chinese civilisation?

Which brings the whole argument back to your original point that you believe that the Russians will be able to sell its oil easily to China at todays market prices.

What AtW and I am saying is that your heroic Russian friends are not necessarily as smart as you seem to think they are.

[sasguru]

Which brings the whole argument back to your original point that you believe that the Russians will be able to sell its oil easily to China at todays market prices.

What AtW and I am saying is that your heroic Russian friends are not necessarily as smart as you seem to think they are.

Ah, the straw man argument again.
Indicative of someone who can't reason properly
Show me where I said I liked the Russians.
Do your parents feel they've wasted money on that public school education, DA?
I would if I was them