Oh dear: MI5 analysts admit link between Iraq war and bombings

[DodgyAgent]

Begging to differ

Wwendigo I beg to differ. The US/UK is less at risk than it would be had Iraq not been invaded. Iraq has far more chance of becoming an Islamic state now than it ever did under saddam Hussein. Fundamentalists are simply using Iraq as an excuse, and they would have attacked the West (and already had done so before 2003 anyway) anyway. One of Bin Ladens criticisms of the West was that they/we are too weak to confront terrorism. This has been proved wrong.

[EC4N]

I think they should put it to the test. Boycott the American Open Gulf Tournament. Withdraw all the troops from Iraq and Afghanistan and then see what happens. If civil war breaks out, let the UN sort it out. That's what it's there for. For starters Britain will be making much better use of the Billions it saves. And no that doesn't mean the terrorists have won. You are only carrying out the democratic will of the people of this country.

[ALM]

Wwendigo I beg to differ. The US/UK is less at risk than it would be had Iraq not been invaded. Iraq has far more chance of becoming an Islamic state now than it ever did under saddam Hussein. Fundamentalists are simply using Iraq as an excuse, and they would have attacked the West (and already had done so before 2003 anyway) anyway. One of Bin Ladens criticisms of the West was that they/we are too weak to confront terrorism. This has been proved wrong.

Complete nonesense DA. The fundamentalists, rightfully or wrongfully, see the West as invading imperialists bent on oppressing the Arabs. This is the reason for the attacks that occured in NY, Baghdad and now in London. If you read the transcripts from OBL's Al-Jazeera videos he clearly sites the continued presence of 'infidel armies' in their holy land Saudi Arabia, oppression of the Palestinians by the Israelis and the recent wars in Afghanistan/Iraq as the justification for attacks against the US and those who support them.

Your idea that 'they would have attacked anyway' is naive if not ridiculous. These lunaticas are not attacking us for the sake of it. Indeed, OBL himself fought with the CIA in the war againt the USSR in Afghanistan. Our foolish participation in the Iraq war has directly resulted in the recent suicide bombings in London and MI5 itself acknowledges this fact.

[threaded]

ALM, erm, no. The suicide bombers would have done it anyway. Except that might well have done it in France and Germany as well. Which they will do soon.

It is not a case of a reason as abstract as politics, it is simply that making suicide bombs is actually a lot easier now than it was in the past.

threaded in "I know your future" mode.

[DodgyAgent]

What then

Complete nonesense DA. The fundamentalists, rightfully or wrongfully, see the West as invading imperialists bent on oppressing the Arabs. This is the reason for the attacks that occured in NY, Baghdad and now in London. If you read the transcripts from OBL's Al-Jazeera videos he clearly sites the continued presence of 'infidel armies' in their holy land Saudi Arabia, oppression of the Palestinians by the Israelis and the recent wars in Afghanistan/Iraq as the justification for attacks against the US and those who support them.

Your idea that 'they would have attacked anyway' is naive if not ridiculous. These lunaticas are not attacking us for the sake of it. Indeed, OBL himself fought with the CIA in the war againt the USSR in Afghanistan. Our foolish participation in the Iraq war has directly resulted in the recent suicide bombings in London and MI5 itself acknowledges this fact.

So Ok then ALM, let us accept that it is the Wests fault for its invasion of Iraq and Afghanistan and its support of Israel. So what? how far back do we need to unravel our past? You tell us where the West went wrong and what it should have done to avoid the creation of these suicide bombers. Am I naive in thinking that these people are sad losers who are driven by people who want to see western women covered up?

[BobTheCrate]

Complete nonesense DA. The fundamentalists, rightfully or wrongfully, see the West as invading imperialists bent on oppressing the Arabs.

Are you absolutely positive that is the reason ALM ?

Or could it be these Islamic fundamentalist maniacs are using any fabrication or excuse they can, when they can, to disguise their ultimate desire to wipe out the infidel disbeliever no matter what ?

[wendigo100]

Wwendigo I beg to differ. The US/UK is less at risk than it would be had Iraq not been invaded. Iraq has far more chance of becoming an Islamic state now than it ever did under saddam Hussein.

I don't understand how you joined those two statements up. Are you saying that Islamic states are less likely to support terrorism?

Fundamentalists are simply using Iraq as an excuse, and they would have attacked the West (and already had done so before 2003 anyway) anyway.

I don't argue with that but what does it mean? Isn't it true that any act of aggression, by anyone in the world, is simply using something or other as an excuse?

As I understand it, Saddam Hussein was well known for his opposition to Al Quaeda. Like him or loath him, he was an ally against them.

So what have we gained by getting rid of him, and at the same time providing a further excuse?

[ALM]

So Ok then ALM, let us accept that it is the Wests fault for its invasion of Iraq and Afghanistan and its support of Israel. So what? how far back do we need to unravel our past? You tell us where the West went wrong and what it should have done to avoid the creation of these suicide bombers. Am I naive in thinking that these people are sad losers who are driven by people who want to see western women covered up?

Well my point is that our involvment in the recent Iraq war was outright counter productive in terms of our security. The yanks foreign policy in the middle east and the almost outrageous way in which it is biased towards the Israelis has given rise to a deep hatred which fuels extremism. The problem is that by taking part in the Iraq war, we in the UK are now placed in the same box as the Yanks. The extremsits opinions on the role of women may differ to ours but I doubt it is in any way responsible for the recent attacks.

So what now? Your right we can't change the past. What we can do is help setup a balanced governments in Iraq and Afghanistan that are percieved by the people of those nations as serving their interests and not those of the invading forces. After decades of turning a blind eye we should finally apply real pressure on the Israelis to end the cycle of killing in Palestine by handing back land and retreating behind their borders.

All of the above will help starve the extremists of the sympathy they enjoy in some quarters of the middle east. I sincerly hope that we choose this option not the one where we are led into further misadventures in Iran or Syria.

[The Lone Gunman]

Just bored and wanting the top six posts to be mine.

[BobTheCrate]

...The yanks foreign policy in the middle east and the almost outrageous way in which it is biased towards the Israelis has given rise to a deep hatred which fuels extremism.

OK the U.S position has overall favoured Israel whether that be right or wrong. But to say in the most outrageous way I don't accept as reasonable. There have been many examples where the U.S has publically criticised Israeli policy.

And what of Bosnia and the commenced genocide of Muslims there which would have succeeded had it not of been for the U.S ? Where was the volume condemnation of Yugoslavia by the Islamic fundamentalist clerics ? Where was their resistance to that genocide ?

Are you really that convinced these fundamentalists are genuine when they tell you it's all about their perception of the west's oppression of the Arab world ?

Still you're not prepared to accept the possibilty/probability of the Islamic fundamentalist ultimate desire to destroy the infidel disbelievers, under whatever excuse/guise takes their fancy at the time of any given attrocity.