Hunt for £100m rogue trader after attack on HBOS share price

[bored]

It's not wealth creation. Wealth is created when some new drug is invented (people live longer), or new BMW is made, or new airplane, or new book is written - all that creates wealth.

Stock market does not create wealth - it creates the illusion that the wealth has been created, with time this illusion grows into a huge bubble just like right now and this illusion infects real economy - people start thinking that their house is actually worth more than it is only because of temporary speculation.

So if someone buys shares for X, then sells them for 2X 10 years later and buys a house, the house is also an illusion?

[Moscow Mule]

...dump them in hope they can buy them back cheaper...

If they don't KNOW they can buy them back cheaper then it's a punt.

[Moscow Mule]

I am pro free market.

No, you are not.

[AtW]

So if someone buys shares for X, then sells them for 2X 10 years later and buys a house, the house is also an illusion?

You are confusing a micro-situation (your own house) with marco-situation - whole picture. For example if you take part in pyramid scheme early then you can make money and buy real house, so you'd think the scheme is for real? Maybe for you, but the rest of the participants get violated, so overall the scheme is an illusion.

It's elementary really - I can't believe I have to explain such obvious economic things. But then again I am dealing here with geeks who won't see beyond their immediate profit.

[AtW]

No, you are not.

I am. I am generally against Govt regulation and Govt property, however in some cases regulation is necessary as otherwise big players would screw everyone, even those (like myself) who are not involved in this scam.

If stock market people were only playing with their own money then I would not care less - problem is that these games affect real economy in a big way, so good regulation is not only desireable but absolutely necessary.

[Moscow Mule]

You are confusing a micro-situation (your own house) with marco-situation - whole picture. For example if you take part in pyramid scheme early then you can make money and buy real house, so you'd think the scheme is for real? Maybe for you, but the rest of the participants get violated, so overall the scheme is an illusion.

It's elementary really - I can't believe I have to explain such obvious economic things. But then again I am dealing here with geeks who won't see beyond their immediate profit.

Pot calling kettle, pot calling kettle, Comms check, over.

[AtW]

What difference does it make if I hold a futures contract (or several) for six seconds, six hours, or six months?

I don't have problem with futures and options. I have big problem with short selling.

I also have problem with people buying shares and selling them in 5 minutes - there should be a legal minimum during which you have to keep the stuff you buy, and you have to pay for it in full - no leverages. You should either have 100% money for your stock market purchase or you don't buy it, end of story.

It is leveraging (or gearing) that allows big funds to risk relatively small amounts of money but create trades that greatly affect market - it's bad enough those guys don't actually have the money to cover their position in full (so that they have to sell when margin calls come and in situation like now this negatively affects market due to forced selling), but they actually start to influence market in a big way - that's market manipulation.

All big stock trades should be subject to compulsory disclosure in advance - just like insiders have to do, same should apply to any big transaction.

[AtW]

Pot calling kettle, pot calling kettle, Comms check, over.

I actually have a degree in Finance, and generally speaking I've spent plenty of time studying macroeconomics. What do you know about it? Bugger all it seems

[Moscow Mule]

I actually have a degree in Finance, and generally speaking I've spent plenty of time studying macroeconomics. What do you know about it? Bugger all it seems

Then you know how it works and you MUST know your ideas are unworkable.

Grow up FFS.

[bogeyman]

AtW is well past Barking and probably has run into the buffers at Upminster on this one.

But still runs on tediously, and inevitably, burrowing under the heavy clay of the Essex Marshes, towards the North Sea, ultimately to reach Eindhoven, and beyond to the Motherland.

He is burrowing home towards Mother Russia via Barking, you see.