Why contracting is good only in the UK-US?

[darmstadt]

Darmstadt,

will you get it from BWM Dreieich ?

Amazing showroom, largest one in Germany save for the one in Munich. I've never seen so many BMers indoors in one place.

Second hand they give 12 months warranty and the garage is owned by BMW and not a franchise and the service is fantastic.

Milan.

They're part of the BMW Frankfurt conglomerate but the one I want is actually in Frankfurt but a good friend works at BMW Darmstadt so I'll be going through them. First though to really convince the missus, about 55% of the way there. We were going for the Audi S5 or the new M3 but I need an automatic so an S4 looked pretty good and Merc have the new C63 coming out in September but I don't know if I really want another AMG so the M5 looks a good choice.

[Methuselah]

I think the question should be: why is it more beneficial to be a contractor in the UK than elsewhere? I think the answer is that the government has not worked out how to tax our income as earned income.

So the whole big deal comes down to, as long as you can avoid paying some taxes on some of your income, the UK is good for contracting?

[Euro-commuter]

I always wondered why contracting is only a good option mainly in UK-US. Surely you can contract in Europe for 5 quid an hour like Milan,but mainly the best options are permie jobs (sure there are some good contracts but they are few and politically distributed) as contracting is often considered as a temporary choice and not a lifestyle one.

Why contracting is so difficult to accept as a career and life choice in most of the world (and that is even harder to understand in countries with more liberal job market laws like Switzerland)?

I am not even sure if we can include the US too as even there, there doesn't seem to be so much difference between permie and contractors moneywise.

In many countries you also pay more taxes as a contractor than a permie (i.e. this is not meant as a suggestion for the UK Tax Office) which makes contracting an even less appealing alternative.

I don't agree. I have been trying unsuccessfully for a couple of years to find contracts in the UK, esp SE England, so that I can stop this weekly commute. I'm not finding any to speak of, never mind better-paid.

[Francko]

I don't agree. I have been trying unsuccessfully for a couple of years to find contracts in the UK, esp SE England, so that I can stop this weekly commute. I'm not finding any to speak of, never mind better-paid.

Which place of SE you talking about? If it's Kent I might understand but I'd be surprised if you couldn't find anything in London or near for 2 years.

[Old Greg]

So the whole big deal comes down to, as long as you can avoid paying some taxes on some of your income, the UK is good for contracting?

Maybe not the whole big deal, but if we all had to pay Employers' and Employees' NIC and Income Tax on 95% all our income (minus certain legitimate expenses), it would look quite different.

[Euro-commuter]

Which place of SE you talking about? If it's Kent I might understand but I'd be surprised if you couldn't find anything in London or near for 2 years.

I live in Bedfordshire. Looking in London, M4, and up to Birmingham. Not looking continuously, only when near the end of a contract.

My marketable skills are based round Siebel EIM: mere mention of keyword "Siebel" on requirement will probably not refer to something I can do. Contrariwise, I could do bog-standard SQL but that wouldn't come near to covering the mortgage.

Try Jobserve for "Siebel and EIM" and ignore those where EIM isn't mentioned as the main requirement: none in London.

[darmstadt]

I don't agree. I have been trying unsuccessfully for a couple of years to find contracts in the UK, esp SE England, so that I can stop this weekly commute. I'm not finding any to speak of, never mind better-paid.

Although I'm not really interested in contracting in the UK I do occasionally work there (a week is enough for me!) but I do get contacted by UK firms. The conversation usually starts with the details of what their client wants, or rather what they think they want. We then go onto financial details and basically the whole deal stops there. I've had some interesting conversations with agents in the UK over this particular point and it either ends up with me telling them that they're going to short sell their client with a numpty or not get anyone.

[Rantor]

But not for the money. If you manage to be a little impartial (and that's very hard for you so I doubt you can make it), you may observe that as a SAP specialist in the UK you would be able to get 5-600 pounds a day without a strong political network. Add to this that taxes as a contractor are lower than a permie job then it is easy to calculate. In the mainland you get similar salaries for permanent positions but you are not going to get 800-1000 euros a day (and you end up paying higher taxes than in UK).

Hmmm, does that rule always hold true? My meal ticket is Siebel but the rates for the high end skills are in the same range as SAP.

In France, Spain & Italy you have no chance of getting 800-1000 per day.

For Germany, Belgium & Holland it is possible. Of course there are different tax scenarios to take into account, but it can be done.

Not sure about Switzerland or Scandanavia though.

[Euro-commuter]

Hmmm, does that rule always hold true? My meal ticket is Siebel but the rates for the high end skills are in the same range as SAP.

In France, Spain & Italy you have no chance of getting 800-1000 per day.

For Germany, Belgium & Holland it is possible. Of course there are different tax scenarios to take into account, but it can be done.

Not sure about Switzerland or Scandanavia though.

Switzerland: like Germany or better.

[Francko]

For Germany, Belgium & Holland it is possible. Of course there are different tax scenarios to take into account, but it can be done.

Not sure about Switzerland or Scandanavia though.

I don't think it's that common. More like 5-600 euros for very good specialists. Of course, if you have tremendous skills you might get 1000 euros even in northern europe but then you would have to compare your rate with a 1000 pounds rate in blighty. France-Spain-Italy you'd be lucky to get 250. Switzerland, the highest I have heard so far is 1200 francs a day (700 euros - 480 pounds a day).