Road pricing bill before Commons

[gingerjedi]

Cheaper to live in you say? And all that fresh sea air. Perhaps a slightly bigger house than you might get in the city too? Bit quieter of a night, I expect. Less chance of getting mugged on the way back from the pub. Able to park your car outside your house when you get home from work, and without having to display a special resident's ticket on the dashboard?

Sorry, you were saying you don't see why you should pay extra to drive in to town? What was the logic behind that again?

I said I wouldn't mind paying if there was less congestion, its called a 'congestion charge' is it not? So if I have to pay it I would expect to see less congestion but I won’t because the local public transport is not up to the job. That is my logic.

[Ardesco]

I just costs you £5 in petrol? That's amazing. I thought everyone was complaining about how the government keeps putting "road tax" up, and how much congestion charges cost, and how much fuel is taxed, and how cars devalue massively from the minute you drive them away from the dealer, and how outrageous parking charges are, and residents' parking to park outside your own house, and MOT, and there's speed cameras everywhere, and insurance premiums have shot up, and clampers, and your car getting towed away, and time lost sitting in traffic jams... £5 you say? I might have to get one of these things, they sound great.

I would still have my car even if I commuted to work every day on the train so the other costs are irrelevant. Parking ticket and clamping costs are only incurred by those who park where they shouldn't so not relevant.

(I work 40 miles away from home. It costs me less than £7.50 a day on the train with a monthly travelcard. Fuel alone costs more than that. Bung in all the other costs of a car and I reckon it would be at least twice as much to drive in.)

Seriously, what do you drive that doesn't get you 40 miles on £7.50 of petrol?? Assuming £1/litre that is 1.65 Gallons of petrol!! A car that does 25MPG would get you there for less than £7.50!!

So, how many petitions have you signed to get public transport improved? How many fellow drivers have you organised to all give up driving cars so there would be demand for an earlier bus?

Because that will have a huge effect, the private bus companies will suddenly have loads of extra cash to burn on putting more buses on the road that will still not get filled up, and then i get the joy of missing my train if the bus is late too....

Oh and of course putting more buses on the road will reduce pollution and congestion won't it...

Muppet

[dang65]

I said I wouldn't mind paying if there was less congestion, its called a 'congestion charge' is it not? So if I have to pay it I would expect to see less congestion but I won’t because the local public transport is not up to the job. That is my logic.

You pay a 'congestion charge' because you are causing congestion, not so that the congestion will magically be moved out of your way because you've paid a special fee!

Also, you people don't pay "road tax" in order to pay for the roads (and therefore "own" the road), you pay a special licence fee which allows you to take your lardass car onto the public highway which everyone else has paid for through council taxes, income tax and VAT. Fair enough, those payments partially come from you as well, but the car is an exception and incurs an additional charge which less destructive and congesting vehicles and pedestrians are exempt from.

[gingerjedi]

You pay a 'congestion charge' because you are causing congestion, not so that the congestion will magically be moved out of your way because you've paid a special fee!

So as a road user why on earth would I want to pay it? It's being sold to the public as a way of reducing road use and you are agreeing that it won't... FFS!!!

[dang65]

Seriously, what do you drive that doesn't get you 40 miles on £7.50 of petrol?? Assuming £1/litre that is 1.65 Gallons of petrol!! A car that does 25MPG would get you there for less than £7.50!!

It's 40 miles back home as well mate, an 80 mile round trip. £7.50 is for the return train journey.

The average fuel consumption of UK cars now is about 32 miles per gallon (off of Google), which is conveniently 2.5 gallons to do 80 miles. 2.5 gallons is just over 11 litres. So to use the car would cost about £11 just in fuel, not counting any of the other costs.

[dang65]

So as a road user why on earth would I want to pay it? It's being sold to the public as a way of reducing road use and you are agreeing that it won't... FFS!!!

Is it? I think it's being sold to the general public who are sick of cars as a way of making idiots pay even more money for sitting in a traffic jam. It's a penalty for clogging up the country. Do you really think it's some kind of special ticket for giving you an empty road? Are you the Queen or something?

[Ardesco]

In that case congratulations, you are one of the very few who finds it economically viable to commute to work and back.

If you want the round trip for a visit to the out.. erm inlaws cost for me that puts it up to £10 in the car and probably £60 on public transport, still a hell of a saving if I drive.

[gingerjedi]

Is it? I think it's being sold to the general public who are sick of cars as a way of making idiots pay even more money for sitting in a traffic jam. It's a penalty for clogging up the country. Do you really think it's some kind of special ticket for giving you an empty road? Are you the Queen or something?

Yes it is exactly what you say it is and that is why people are not happy about paying it.

Key points of the bill:

Update existing powers so councils can propose local road pricing schemes.

Any scheme expected to be part of anti-congestion plan and to fit in with those run elsewhere.

Councils to bring in "quality contracts" to specify companies' bus routes, timetables and fares.

Reform passenger transport authorities in major towns outside London to enable a "more coherent" approach.

I think the key words are 'Anti' & 'Congestion' yet we all know it’s just another unwanted tax to burden on our 'hard working families' and it will make little difference to the miserable experience that is using the UK road network.

[VectraMan]

Is it? I think it's being sold to the general public who are sick of cars as a way of making idiots pay even more money for sitting in a traffic jam. It's a penalty for clogging up the country. Do you really think it's some kind of special ticket for giving you an empty road? Are you the Queen or something?

This is the great thing about this. It's a charge to get people off the roads so the roads are less congested, but for who? If the scheme succeeds, there won't be the demand for the uncongested roads, so only the very rich will benefit. Meanwhile the government will be using extra taxes to reduce the congestion on the over subscribed public transport system.

It's only "clogging up the country" if you want to use the roads, which you seem to be against. If anything a public transport user should want car travel to remain as cheap as possible.

[Zorba]

I'm quite surprised that a key factor in the cost calculation - namely time - has been missed out here, especially on a contractor's forum! My commute is 45 minutes each way (38 mile round trip) but according to the local travel authority it would take me 1h30 minimum each way - and that's their estimate, not mine, therefore it doesn't include delays, cancellations etc etc.

That's 1h30 a day that I could be charging for, or spending at home with my family. How much is that worth, then?

'Congestion charging' won't reduce congestion, won't reduce the number of cars, and won't persuade me to leave my car unless it actually makes sense - both in terms of time and money. I get the train to London even if it's dearer than petrol, simply because it's more convenient. Congestion charging helps no-one at the moment - it's like creating a tax on space travel, when there's a ton of things to do first, like bringing private bus companies back under control. Therefore the government are only taking advantage of the situation to stuff their pockets.

Increase road tax! Increase fuel duty! But taxing 'congestion' is currently pointless because it makes the assumption that people have a choice of where and when they are going to drive.