Interviews - The other side...

[TheOmegaMan]

Bollocks. If you're required to communicate your ideas with other the other software engineers you have to have a certain credibility.

The questions are not elitist, they're relevant to the position for which we're recruiting.

And you measure credibility by obscure technical knowledge. Does your software process rely on this sort of knowledge ? If so, you are doomed never to find someone "good" enough. Still, makes good bs down the pub doesn't it ? And my, how awfully clever you are to know this sort of thing.

[tim123]

Look, the guy has put 10 years C & C++ experience in a Windows and Realtime software environment. According to our test results he's not as experienced as he made out. The answers he gave to our verbal questions along with his written test results show that he isn't experienced enough for the role. He won't be getting the job, end of!.

I don't have a problem with you not giving him the job. I have a problem with your assessment that he lied on his CV just because he couldn't answer some questions specifically targetted at what you want.

Just because he can't answer these questions it doesn't mean that his experience is made up. what it means is that his experience is different to that which you need. So fine, he is no use to you, but you haven't shown that he is a fake.

As another example: I was once asked to write some sample code to extract the parameters out a command line. I have never in my life done this in the real world (before or after) and didn't (still wouldn't) have the faintest idea how to code it. I didn't get that job either, but does it suggest my 20 years experience is made up?

BTW how much are you offering for this position? (I really am wondering what a senior permi engineer gets paid right now)

tim

[Churchill]

And you measure credibility by obscure technical knowledge. Does your software process rely on this sort of knowledge ? If so, you are doomed never to find someone "good" enough. Still, makes good bs down the pub doesn't it ? And my, how awfully clever you are to know this sort of thing.

Get f*cked.

[Churchill]

I don't have a problem with you not giving him the job. I have a problem with your assessment that he lied on his CV just because he couldn't answer some questions specifically targetted at what you want.

Just because he can't answer these questions it doesn't mean that his experience is made up. what it means is that his experience is different to that which you need. So fine, he is no use to you, but you haven't shown that he is a fake.

As another example: I was once asked to write some sample code to extract the parameters out a command line. I have never in my life done this in the real world (before or after) and didn't (still wouldn't) have the faintest idea how to code it. I didn't get that job either, but does it suggest my 20 years experience is made up?

BTW how much are you offering for this position? (I really am wondering what a senior permi engineer gets paid right now)

tim

Why, how much do you want?

[tim123]

Why, how much do you want?

50K+

Most of the time I get phoned about perm jobs I am asked if I am interested at 35K. I tell them to go away, not because I can't afford to go that low, but because it means that the job is just not going to be senior enough to keep me interested, even though I am assured by the agent that they are senior roles.

On the one occasion I was tempted by a role, with a start up, at the right price, I assumed that they would see the potential for a more senior position and tailor the role specifically. But I just ended up having a phone interview for the very senior (their terminology) of "integrating the code delivered by their indians" (my terminology). I told them that I probably wouldn't be interested in that role as a contract and certainly not as a perm (at any salary - them calling it a senior position does not make it so). Three months later I was asked to be put forward by another agency for the same position as a contract and declined as I had already burnt that bridge (not that I lost any sleep over it).

I'm just interested in knowing whether it is me, or the clients who are out of line. I see numpty jobs for junior developers in finance getting offered 60K and as a senior embedded bod I get offered 35K! (or rather I don't, because I can only tick 9 out of 10 required boxes)

tim

[Euro-commuter]

I don't have a problem with you not giving him the job. I have a problem with your assessment that he lied on his CV just because he couldn't answer some questions specifically targetted at what you want.

Just because he can't answer these questions it doesn't mean that his experience is made up. what it means is that his experience is different to that which you need. So fine, he is no use to you, but you haven't shown that he is a fake.

I don't know the field in question, but in my own field, I recently had a phone interview with a client who was convinced that if I had the experience I claimed, I would remember by heart some configuration details in the tool concerned (Siebel Tools). As it happens, I do have the experience I claimed. I might or might not remember stuff at any given moment, but that's not how I work: the tool is open on my desktop all day every day, and I don't have to remember it.

His loss. He was wrong, and he based a hiring decision on one little point that he thought was a giveaway.

[AtW]

I see numpty jobs for junior developers in finance getting offered 60K and as a senior embedded bod I get offered 35K!

It's not suprising if you think about it logically: margins in business of ripping people off are much higher than in actually making products useful to people.

[Euro-commuter]

It's not suprising if you think about it logically: margins in business of ripping people off are much higher than in actually making products useful to people.

[TheOmegaMan]

Get f*cked.

You are fooling yourself here. We realise that you are using these tests to masturbate your ego, to impress the management, to convince others that you actually have something that many others do not have. Why pretend otherwise - why tell us of this event ?

But what do you really have ?

A few cheap tricks, a stack of CVs and the conceit of a fool.

[OwlHoot]

But what I do know is you cannot judge a person's software understanding on the basis of an answer to a very narrow syntax question. You could simply have asked a question on something that he has genuinely never encountered.

Tim, I know exactly where you're coming from on this, because in the past I've been on the receiving end of smart asses asking obscure techie questions, and I'm sure we all have.

The snag is some of the most useless contractors have the most engaging personalities, maybe partly to compensate for their technical shortcomings, and there _is_ an undeniable correlation between peoples' ability to answer geeky questions and their competence and analytical ability. So in short, what else can an interviewer do to sort the sheep from the goats? I mean, they're not hiring talk show hosts but people who can get the job done.

To take an example, most of my contracts involve database work, and once or twice a year I need to use an SQL condition that uses an explicit join, and in practice I always look it up. I can never remember the bloody syntax, and in any case this seems to differ for every kind of database. But before an interview I memorize the syntax for the relevant database, because they often ask about it. One just has to play the game their way.