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Shocking, totally unexpected surprise

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    #31
    Originally posted by AtW View Post
    What China got to do with lack of pandemic preparedness in the UK?

    Pandemic means all foreign supply chains will be no good - that is obvious basic assumption, necessitating large up to date local stockpile plus detailed plans to deploy local production at short notice: PPE, ventilators, manufacturing capacity for vaccines, contact tracing, how to shutdown if needed etc.
    Blaming China for everything is a simple solution for simple people.

    Comment


      #32
      Originally posted by Old Greg View Post
      Blaming China for everything is a simple solution for simple people.
      Yet you still do.
      The greatest trick the devil ever pulled was convincing the world that he didn't exist

      Comment


        #33
        Originally posted by LondonManc View Post
        Yet you still do.
        You're so simple, you even got that wrong!

        Comment


          #34
          Originally posted by Mordac View Post
          We should have put you in charge. That way something else would have gone catastrophically wrong as well, and we could have had a good laugh at your expense. I hope you'll be able to make use of your Masters Degree in Hindsight Studies at some point...
          Because you're not very bright, you're confusing the government's lack of foresight (which several other governments didn't suffer from) with a claim that a better outcomes could only have been possible with hindsight. The standard argument of the stupid.

          To give an example, I was astonished that Cheltenham was allowed to go ahead, for example. Not now but at the time.
          Hard Brexit now!
          #prayfornodeal

          Comment


            #35
            Originally posted by Mordac View Post
            The NHS isn't underfunded. If it is short of funds, it's because it funds too many people like this:
            Health boss Siobhan McArdle resigns saying 'life's too short' - BBC News

            If you're feeling sorry for her, try some of these:
            Departing CEO received GBP53k overtime payment | HSJ Local | Health Service Journal

            Ex-James Cook hospital boss claimed GBP149 parking tickets on expenses - despite GBP300,000 salary - Teesside Live

            Also, if you've ever been involved in selling into the public sector, you'd know that prime-time is the 3 months from January to the end of March, because they are so desperate to blow their remaining budgets on any old crap you could take them to lunch and sell them a truck-load of whatever you've got hanging around in the warehouse from last year.
            Somebody needs to take a chainsaw to elements of the public sector, or this sort of screw-up will happen again. You can blame government all you like, but it's the civil service that runs the country, and they're not changing for anybody. The best bit is, they don't get sacked, and if anyone shouts at them they get to sue for bullying. The whole sh!t-show is beyond-belief fubared, but if you know better, why not have a crack? You couldn't make things any worse. Although I reckon you could.

            Yet again your stupidity is on display.
            The NHS can perfectly well be underfunded and waste money at the same time.
            And organised as it is, in a top down Soviet style bureaucracy, it's almost certain to be inefficient.
            Why don't I have crack? Because I'm not the politician in charge.
            If I was I would look at modelling it on successful examples of private-public partnerships as they have in Western Europe, any of which are superior to the NHS.
            But possibly that would be impossible given the low IQ of the majority of the Uk population, who would want to "save our NHS" even while its killing them.

            UK still behind in cancer survival despite advances - NHS
            Hard Brexit now!
            #prayfornodeal

            Comment


              #36
              Originally posted by sasguru View Post
              Because you're not very bright, you're confusing the government's lack of foresight (which several other governments didn't suffer from) with a claim that a better outcomes could only have been possible with hindsight. The standard argument of the stupid.

              To give an example, I was astonished that Cheltenham was allowed to go ahead, for example. Not now but at the time.
              There is lots going on here (so mordac is going to struggle).

              1. An intrinsic lack of resilience in terms of low numbers of ICU beds for the population. In normal times, this isn't a massive problem as the UK model is to invest in step-down and high dependency beds. Having said that, numbers ARE a bit too low even for normal times, as witnessed by the rates of cancellations of life-saving and time critical (but not emergency) surgery such as cancer surgery, due to no availability of a post-operative ICU bed.

              2. Lack of preparedness for a pandemic - been discussed many times; I'm not sure whether many countries were better prepared.

              3. This is the big one for me, picking up on your comment re Cheltenham, slowness to react effectively and unclear messages:
              a) Contrarian positions such as a herd immunity strategy aren't very clever in a pandemic. Refusing to participate in EU-wide measure such as procurement is pretty daft.
              b) Initially - Johnson was saying how it went against his sensibilities to some such to restrict liberties. Allowing Cheltenham and other big events was clearly a mistake, and was clearly a mistake at that point, not just with the benefit of hindsight. Johnson shaking hands with everyone in hospital and then advertising the fact.
              c) When restrictions were put in, there was too much vagueness as to what was permitted, with different police forces trying to interpret the rules; lack of clarity over whether you can drive 30 miles to the countryside for a walk; compare this to Ireland where you can only exercise within 2 km of your house and if I drive to a client site, I'll be stopped at several police checkpoints to show my driving licence and essential worker letter - and they're very polite about it, even if you shouldn't be travelling and they're turning you around.
              d) Lack of responsiveness as the situation changes - having seen the unfolding of the crisis for near enough national decision-making in Ireland, there was a genuine concern that the acute hospital system would utterly collapse. I'm sure it was similar in the UK. Within that context, and with the need to make decisions fast, it was reasonable to focus on public health and acute hospitals. and ignore somewhat residential setting like nursing homes. However, the UK was much too slow to respond to the situation where the acute sector was bearing up and the nursing homes needed action.

              4 Ridiculous macho posturing and promises: 25,000 tests per day by mid April, 100,000 test per day by end of April. Save that stuff for 'getting Brexit done'.

              Comment


                #37
                Originally posted by Old Greg View Post
                There is lots going on here (so mordac is going to struggle).

                1. An intrinsic lack of resilience in terms of low numbers of ICU beds for the population. In normal times, this isn't a massive problem as the UK model is to invest in step-down and high dependency beds. Having said that, numbers ARE a bit too low even for normal times, as witnessed by the rates of cancellations of life-saving and time critical (but not emergency) surgery such as cancer surgery, due to no availability of a post-operative ICU bed.

                2. Lack of preparedness for a pandemic - been discussed many times; I'm not sure whether many countries were better prepared.

                3. This is the big one for me, picking up on your comment re Cheltenham, slowness to react effectively and unclear messages:
                a) Contrarian positions such as a herd immunity strategy aren't very clever in a pandemic. Refusing to participate in EU-wide measure such as procurement is pretty daft.
                b) Initially - Johnson was saying how it went against his sensibilities to some such to restrict liberties. Allowing Cheltenham and other big events was clearly a mistake, and was clearly a mistake at that point, not just with the benefit of hindsight. Johnson shaking hands with everyone in hospital and then advertising the fact.
                c) When restrictions were put in, there was too much vagueness as to what was permitted, with different police forces trying to interpret the rules; lack of clarity over whether you can drive 30 miles to the countryside for a walk; compare this to Ireland where you can only exercise within 2 km of your house and if I drive to a client site, I'll be stopped at several police checkpoints to show my driving licence and essential worker letter - and they're very polite about it, even if you shouldn't be travelling and they're turning you around.
                d) Lack of responsiveness as the situation changes - having seen the unfolding of the crisis for near enough national decision-making in Ireland, there was a genuine concern that the acute hospital system would utterly collapse. I'm sure it was similar in the UK. Within that context, and with the need to make decisions fast, it was reasonable to focus on public health and acute hospitals. and ignore somewhat residential setting like nursing homes. However, the UK was much too slow to respond to the situation where the acute sector was bearing up and the nursing homes needed action.

                4 Ridiculous macho posturing and promises: 25,000 tests per day by mid April, 100,000 test per day by end of April. Save that stuff for 'getting Brexit done'.

                The government did do some things right: e.g. the Nightingale hospitals and increasing ICU beds in the NHS at large. But the latter has come at the expense of treating other diseases as you note and as the data are beginning to show.
                Hard Brexit now!
                #prayfornodeal

                Comment


                  #38
                  Originally posted by sasguru View Post
                  The government did do some things right: e.g. the Nightingale hospitals and increasing ICU beds in the NHS at large. But the latter has come at the expense of treating other diseases as you note and as the data are beginning to show.
                  Broadly speaking, the Nightingale Hospitals are a good move. I'm working on some of the ICT needs for the Irish equivalent. However, putting additional ICU beds into a temporary hospital (Excel) always looked like an eccentric choice. Don't get me wrong, it is an amazing feat of engineering and a testament to the British military to have set this up, but it doesn't mean it's a sensible thing to do - it looks like a grand gesture. It makes much more sense to convert existing non-ICU beds in existing acute hospitals into ICU beds, and then use these temporary hospitals as step-down beds, where the need for support services (laboratory, radiology and other diagnostics, pharmacy) and facilities such as piped oxygen is less complex and less intense.

                  Comment


                    #39
                    Originally posted by sasguru View Post
                    Because you're not very bright, you're confusing the government's lack of foresight (which several other governments didn't suffer from) with a claim that a better outcomes could only have been possible with hindsight. The standard argument of the stupid.

                    To give an example, I was astonished that Cheltenham was allowed to go ahead, for example. Not now but at the time.
                    Wow, this comes from a person who doesn't even know how to leave a forum properly.
                    The greatest trick the devil ever pulled was convincing the world that he didn't exist

                    Comment


                      #40
                      Originally posted by LondonManc View Post
                      Wow, this comes from a person who doesn't even know how to leave a forum properly.
                      No need to sign off your risibly stupid posts. We know you're a cretin.
                      Hard Brexit now!
                      #prayfornodeal

                      Comment

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