No escaping the Russians

[minestrone]

Pretty likely it is Russia but wouldn't an appearance of more diplomacy have worked better? Just giving them 24 hours to refute the allegations while providing no evidence is making it easier for people to dismiss the case.

They poisoned 500 people on our own soil.

[Jog On]

The best way to do this is to keep the ball flat. Russia aint going to stop bumping off ex-spies, they should have announced an enquiry, which would then examine all the evidence and report back at a time where it becomes page 10 news, whilst using back channels to get the Russians to be more discreet about bumping off their enemies. It's not like the UK or the US don't do the same thing.

This is the problem myself and other 'useful idiots/spies/paid Kremlin trolls' have with this story. The fact that they lied to us over Iraq and the pattern we're seeing of media hysteria and fast tracked action puts a huge question mark over it all.

I'm wondering if something big has happened in Syria to cause this - maybe they took out a load of our troops that were embedded with the rebels or something. Or they are just making too many gains and our side are having a massive hissy fit. Trying to get them kicked off the UNSC says a lot about what this is about as that is where they have vetoed all our Syrian invasion attempts.

Also Nikky Haley in the UN dusted off the usual chemical weapons script they've used so many times in the 'Assad must go' campaign:

But Haley laid the blame firmly at Russia's door. Highlighting Moscow's support of the Assad regime in Syria following that government's use of chemical weapons against civilians, Haley told fellow diplomats the world had reached "a defining moment."

"Time and time again, members states say they oppose the use of chemical weapons under any circumstance," said Haley. "Now one member stands accused of using chemical weapons on the sovereign soil of another member. The credibility of this council will not survive if we fail to hold Russia accountable."

There is a pattern here that people are ignoring. I really thought that after the Iraq WMD lie we wouldn't be stupid enough to fall for it again - but clearly most of you are...

[minestrone]

Iraq is not relevant, everyone knew he didn't have any weapons, they had to lie and tell us there was.

There clearly is a weapon in this case.

[Jog On]

Iraq is not relevant, everyone knew he didn't have any weapons, they had to lie and tell us there was.

There clearly is a weapon in this case.

4/10

We need some better trolls/sockies around here.

[OwlHoot]

Iraq is not relevant, everyone knew he didn't have any weapons, they had to lie and tell us there was.

There clearly is a weapon in this case.

Nobody disputes that, dummy.

The point is was it the Russians, or someone else trying to discredit them?

For once, I reckon Corbyn has been somewhat harshly treated for sounding a note of caution.

After all, just because these Novichok chemicals may be fiendishly hard to discover, and (perhaps) manufacture, they are only chemical substances and there's no law of physics to say they can't be made somewhere else, especially if their details have been filched one way or another from Russian labs at some point over the last thirty or more years.

[Loan Ranger]

Rinse and repeat.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Poison...der_Litvinenko

"Shortly after the incident Russian government dismissed theories of FSB involvement in the assassination using the argument that Litvinenko was "not important" and "mentally unstable", implying that the government had no interest in killing such an insignificant figure. Eduard Limonov observed that the same argument was raised after assassination of Anna Politkovskaya, and described Litvinenko death as "very public execution".

"An explanation put forward by the Russian Government appeared to be that the deaths of Litvinenko and Politkovskaya were intended to embarrass President Putin."

[minestrone]

We have to remember that Batcher has been telling everyone on the site for years that they put a nuclear sub base in the Clyde to stop oil being discovered there and stop Scottish independence.

With that level of fook wittery I'm fairly sure I've got this one right.

[shaunbhoy]

With that level of fook wittery I'm fairly sure I've got this one right.

Maybe. But it is unwise to use Batcher as a yardstick for anything more complex than Village Idiocy.

[AtW]

I don't understand the Russophilia the far left and far right have for the state now. Putin kills and imprisons his opponents with impunity, robs his people and threatens his neighbours on an almost daily basis. Is autocracy really that appealing?

People honestly doubt that he did this. Bonkers.

£££

[AtW]

The best way to do this is to keep the ball flat. Russia aint going to stop bumping off ex-spies, they should have announced an enquiry, which would then examine all the evidence and report back at a time where it becomes page 10 news, whilst using back channels to get the Russians to be more discreet about bumping off their enemies. It's not like the UK or the US don't do the same thing.

When was the last time UK or US deliberatly murdered somebody in Russia?

USSR did it all the time in 1930-50s, many priven examples including use of radio-active materials before Litvinenko

Nerve agent is the first time (outside birders), it's a new high bar, especially given how many people got affected - I hope they would file class action lawsuit