Cryptocurrency

[Jog On]

My point is as I understand it, crypto is currently a "way around" getting CGT on investment, because even though it's more akin to gambling right now, it's still an investment if we're being honest. I don't see any of you going to casino's and putting hundreds if not thousands of pounds down on a card table. Maybe you are but if you're making money at it you certainly aren't posting about it!

The loan schemes of years gone by were a way of getting around tax. They were (as I understand it) dodgy but legitimate in that they exploited loopholes. HMRC retrospectively closed said loopholes and then applied the rules in retrospect. Honestly, I would bet a fairly significant amount that they'll do the same to crypto currencies. But then again, they'd probably tax me on that when I won, too.

It's a strange one the gambling thing. Take spreadbetting vs CFDs. You can trade the exact same instrument with the same amounts and frequency with the exact same entry/stop/target and one is taxable one isn't.

Why do HMRC allow spreadbetting?

[mattfx]

Why do HMRC allow anything? I find it surprising there isn't some kind of tax on gambling winnings to be honest, even if it was a mere 5%.

The problem is Crypto has become a really, really big thing. With Joe Public now dipping their toes in the water hoping to make their miwwwiiiions. It's because of that we will have a problem, HMRC will see these very people as easy targets and that there is money to be made.

Interestingly for the miners, you may well be able to get around the tax altogether. If you mine Zencash which is known for its privacy features to a private wallet, then use Evercoin to transfer Zen into an Eth wallet, go from that to Revolut and convert to Euro's held in a foreign account and THEN go into GBP, I believe you may be okay. Something to do with currency speculation not being taxable.... In theory the first sight HMRC will get of that is the EUR-GBP bit, everything else is encrypted and untraceable.

[clearedforlanding]

Interestingly for the miners, you may well be able to get around the tax altogether. If you mine Zencash which is known for its privacy features to a private wallet, then use Evercoin to transfer Zen into an Eth wallet, go from that to Revolut and convert to Euro's held in a foreign account and THEN go into GBP, I believe you may be okay. Something to do with currency speculation not being taxable.... In theory the first sight HMRC will get of that is the EUR-GBP bit, everything else is encrypted and untraceable.

Sshhhh.

[VirtualMonkey]

Why do HMRC allow anything? I find it surprising there isn't some kind of tax on gambling winnings to be honest, even if it was a mere 5%.

The problem is Crypto has become a really, really big thing. With Joe Public now dipping their toes in the water hoping to make their miwwwiiiions. It's because of that we will have a problem, HMRC will see these very people as easy targets and that there is money to be made.

Interestingly for the miners, you may well be able to get around the tax altogether. If you mine Zencash which is known for its privacy features to a private wallet, then use Evercoin to transfer Zen into an Eth wallet, go from that to Revolut and convert to Euro's held in a foreign account and THEN go into GBP, I believe you may be okay. Something to do with currency speculation not being taxable.... In theory the first sight HMRC will get of that is the EUR-GBP bit, everything else is encrypted and untraceable.

Didn't there used to be a tax on gambling? I seem to remember people saying they had to pay a tax when they placed a bet.
If HMRC wanted to put tax onto crypto gains then a) there's no easy way to do it as many exchanges are not UK based, b) there are potentially so many people trying to get in it would likely crash the HMRC system responsible and c) people likely just won't be bothered and take a risk that they may get caught
Could they put the onus on the banks to spot and tax/report transfers from exchanges? Possibly but what happens for P2P?
It looks to be one big honesty jar in the making.
I don't have a stocks and shares portfolio so I don't know how it works in that arena...how are gains there taxed? Is it just honesty when you do your SA?

[clearedforlanding]

Cashing out

The MC Beach Club is the go to place in Marbella to cash out. The amounts we hold will be chump change there. I bought my first BTC there and was shaking like a tulipting dog handing over a couple of grand to some guy.

Oooh, 10000.1 as I type.

[VirtualMonkey]

Oooh, 10000.1 as I type.

Below 10k now. I really don't care about the price because I'm 100% convinced it will bounce back and give us wave 3 of the elliot wave sequence...but I do wish it would hurry up and hit bottom so we can move on (whatever the bottom may be).

[doconline]

Didn't there used to be a tax on gambling? I seem to remember people saying they had to pay a tax when they placed a bet.
If HMRC wanted to put tax onto crypto gains then a) there's no easy way to do it as many exchanges are not UK based, b) there are potentially so many people trying to get in it would likely crash the HMRC system responsible and c) people likely just won't be bothered and take a risk that they may get caught
Could they put the onus on the banks to spot and tax/report transfers from exchanges? Possibly but what happens for P2P?
It looks to be one big honesty jar in the making.
I don't have a stocks and shares portfolio so I don't know how it works in that arena...how are gains there taxed? Is it just honesty when you do your SA?

Yes, previously when you put a bet on you could either pay a tax on the stake or the winnings. The tax was then shifted to the bookmakerabout 10 / 15 years ago. Not sure how this would work for crypto as the exchanges won't pay taxes to HMRC unless based here.

[tomtomagain]

Below 10k now. I really don't care about the price because I'm 100% convinced it will bounce back and give us wave 3 of the elliot wave sequence...but I do wish it would hurry up and hit bottom so we can move on (whatever the bottom may be).

If everything was so predictable everyone would make money all of the time. But it isn't. So they don't.

Why should it "bounce" back? What's going to change to make it increase in value? The shrieking-media is just going to go on and on wailing about every negative crypto-related story. That's not going to help sentiment.

Reminds me of the start of the DotCom crash. Everyone was talking about a "V-Shaped Recovery" when prices were down by 40% ... off course they ended up down 90% and even 99% in a lot of cases.

[Jog On]

If everything was so predictable everyone would make money all of the time. But it isn't. So they don't.

Why should it "bounce" back? What's going to change to make it increase in value? The shrieking-media is just going to go on and on wailing about every negative crypto-related story. That's not going to help sentiment.

Reminds me of the start of the DotCom crash. Everyone was talking about a "V-Shaped Recovery" when prices were down by 40% ... off course they ended up down 90% and even 99% in a lot of cases.

Wider acceptance and adoption of blockchain, plus institutional money getting in and regulation making it safer and less scammy. There will be lots of coins/projects that will fail and we'll emerge with the equivalent Amazon/Ebay/Google/Facebooks.

Soon it will be end user friendly as well - this is all to come.

[mattfx]

[QUOTE=Amazon/Ebay/Google/Facebooks.[/QUOTE]

Ethereum/DASH/Zen/Stellar

I think GAS and Ripple fit in there too but, I think the above 4 will be big having looked into the technology and use cases behind them. Anyone serious about investing really, really needs to read about the projects and get geeky about them.