The Bremainer Elite! - Jeremy Corbyn

[Old Greg]

Corbyn is navigating sensibly through the long-standing UK left-wing critique of the EU.

One hand (Bennite critique):the EU has a democratic deficit so tends to take power away from ordinary people.

Other hand: a) the EU has afforded ordinary people with rights - particularly workers' rights - that would be demolished by a UK ruling elite that is more rapacious than the continental ruling elite; b) the UK also has a democratic deficit

So the principle that withdrawal from the EU may decrease an additional layer of democratically compromised government must be weighed against the decrease in workers' rights that would in practice arise from a withdrawal.

For my own part, if there was an alternative model proposed by the Leavers I might be swayed, but the swivelled eyed loons leading the charge make me think that workers' rights would be eroded.

[DimPrawn]

One hand (Bennite critique):the EU has a democratic deficit so tends to take power away from ordinary people.

Other hand: a) the EU has afforded ordinary people with rights - particularly workers' rights - that would be demolished by a UK ruling elite that is more rapacious than the continental ruling elite; b) the UK also has a democratic deficit

So the principle that withdrawal from the EU may decrease an additional layer of democratically compromised government must be weighed against the decrease in workers' rights that would in practice arise from a withdrawal.

.

For some reason I imagined you saying all that in this voice...

[shaunbhoy]

For my own part, if there was an alternative model proposed by the Leavers I might be swayed, but the swivelled eyed loons leading the charge make me think that workers' rights would be eroded.

If Brexit occurs, in practice, just what flavour of Government do you think will be doing the dismantling? Cameron and Osborne will be out of the picture and the Tory party will be split down the middle. The whole raison d'etre for UKIP will have vanished overnight. Corbyn will be tarnished for having been seen as a ditherer and the Lib Dems are pro-EU so will be viewed as having backed the wrong horse.
In short, there would appear to be nobody likely to get any decent mandate from the Electorate and so it would seem unlikely that whatever party does get a semblance of power would wish to pursue anything that contentious by way of policy.
The whole political business might just get the kick up the arse that is long overdue.

[jamesbrown]

the swivelled eyed loons leading the charge make me think that workers' rights would be eroded.

You could just as easily replace "right" with "left" and "workers rights" with the "right to work". Immigration is an issue for the working classes, and the left has resorted, largely, to telling them that they're wrong, stupid, and racist. That is, until about 9am this morning when Tom Watson began to realise that Labour was not longer for, well, labour, and started an immediate and profound U-turn to espouse controlled immigration via reform of the EU

Workers (or not, as the case may be):

The Labour supporters backing Brexit in Stoke-on-Trent heartland – video | Opinion | The Guardian

The Gov't is still decided by the majority in this country who, like me, reside somewhere in the political centre ground. We don't want a wholesale erosion of workers' rights. Most workers' rights were not introduced by the EU, they were introduced by Labour or the Tories. To suggest otherwise is fatuous, and you will find a majority of those on the Leave side arguing the same thing.

[darmstadt]

Why is

Immigration is an issue for the working classes

?

[shaunbhoy]

Why is ?

Because it is the working classes that cannot get their children into the overcrowded schools, cannot get to see their GPs because of oversubscribed surgery commitments, cannot get housed etc. etc. etc.

[darmstadt]

Because it is the working classes that cannot get their children into the overcrowded schools, cannot get to see their GPs because of oversubscribed surgery commitments, cannot get housed etc. etc. etc.

Why not? I don't see that happening in other countries that have more immigrants than the UK, maybe these things are actually happening due to Tory austerity cuts...

[DimPrawn]

Why not? I don't see that happening in other countries that have more immigrants than the UK, maybe these things are actually happening due to Tory austerity cuts...

If you were actually here, you'd see and hear what has happened and is happening.

It's unusual to hear anyone speaking English here in many places, such as doctors, hospitals and schools.

People here have had enough of it TBH, and the voters are finally waking up....

[shaunbhoy]

Why not? I don't see that happening in other countries that have more immigrants than the UK, maybe these things are actually happening due to Tory austerity cuts...

Well they were happening during the 13 years we had a New Labour government too, and maybe if they hadn't run up such a colossal debt figure there would be little need for Tory austerity cuts?

[jamesbrown]

Why is ?

If you can get a job, according to various academic studies and the BoE, the greatest impacts of immigration on wage compression are experienced by those in the lower quantiles of the income distribution. They are also more likely to be living in areas with much higher immigration than average and, therefore, competing for public services. Or you could just listen to what working class voters are saying (see above). Obviously, there are other critical factors too, such as the demise of manufacturing jobs and their replacement (or not) with services jobs (much less skilled and less well paid), as well as misguided gov't policy over decades (failing to invest in public services in areas that experience high immigration), but Labour are part of that too. Labour MPs mostly dismiss immigration as a significant factor and, as such, they no longer represent their constituents (that only ~10 are for Leave says it all).