Negotiating a new rate

[MarillionFan]

I have just agreed to a new contract. It is sub £300 and is the lowest rate I have agreed to for 7 years!!!! But I agreed.

It was to cover for two months, but the job description does not match the role and therefore the job is actually worth £400p/d based on what I will be doing - I just happened to have the additional skillset.

So, do I try to renogiate now or at christmas?

I believe my best bet is to set up the department, become knowledge base and the go for the big raise at Xmas. IMO.

[lukemg]

This is not 'cut and dried' and one size definately doesn't fit all. It depends on a number of factors and remember to work through the agent, you hassle him, he can talk to the client/squeeze his/her own percentage.
In the past I have asked for rises in the following cases:
Been there 12 months - they are unlikely to be offended if you ask for a modest rise on renewal (remember they can always say no)
Got another offer ready - ask for rise, got a safety net so no fear.
Hate the boss/job - demand rise to sugar the pill of staying when the role isn't great.
Prepared to leave - if you are prepared to walk, you have nothing to lose, ask.
Strong position - if rates are rising around you, you have good record in the co, local knowledge, in other words they will not want the grief/uncertainty ( + having to get a fresh budget approved, it's much easier to keep a contractor than go through the justification process) of trying to replace you at what will probably be a higher rate anyway, ask for the rise.

I am in an interesting situation on this score.
Originally offered 50/day more for a 3 month contract. They changed this to current rate (based on me having less experience in the large scale systems in use) and 6 months, this was from the client side, not the agent skimming percentage it's a PSL deal. I was in a weak postion and really wanted the role so agreed but told the agent I would be after the original rate for any renewal. That renewal is looking likely and I still want to stay so I am going to ask if the rate will be increased to the going rate (I now have the experience they wanted me to have) but I am likely to back down if they object because I want the role and they have the person I replaced available to return at a lower rate than my current one.
So the point is - you have to guage it on your own position and act accordingly. NEVER be embarrassed to ask for a rise, it's business not personal and on the other side NEVER get upset if they say no, just make a decision based on this.

[SallyAnne]

I've known a lot of contractors who think they DESERVE a rise with every extension - they always come accross as real cocks to me. They walk round with the attitude that their tulip doesn't smell, and that the company would be lost without them.

I just hate this attitude. You agree a rate at the start, you should be professional about it and honour that rate.
I agree with whoever said earlier to "grow up" - my sentiments exactly.

Obviously in certain circumstances it is plausable - if your job increases in responsibility, if you have to move to a new location (which results in it costing you more), stuff like that. But otherwise, stop giving contractors a bad name man.

[Mr Crosby]

Did they have a good name to start with?

[lukemg]

Sally, you are making it personal and emotional, that is a mistake. This is a business arrangement. Rates are dictated by a number of factors, mainly market forces, or every job would pay the same rate. If any of these change, or you can make them change by being seen as more valuable etc then you have the choice to negotiate.
Some contractors are to55ers as are some premies, that is their choice, the client has got the right to say bye, that is theirs.
You are being asked to provide a service for a length of time using the skills you can demonstrate, the market/agent/client indicates a rate, you decide if that is acceptable (or indicate a counter demand) and hopefully an agreement is reached.
Look at footy players (the ultimate contractors) supply/demand/percieved value determines the rate, supporters get emotional (no-one is worth that etc) but while the player benefits from the rate they don't set it.

[Lucifer Box]

If the client wants to fix the rate for six months they should offer a six month contract. If they only offer a three month contract the rate is only guaranteed for three months. They can't have their cake and eat it.

[SallyAnne]

Sally, you are making it personal and emotional, that is a mistake. This is a business arrangement. Rates are dictated by a number of factors, mainly market forces, or every job would pay the same rate. If any of these change, or you can make them change by being seen as more valuable etc then you have the choice to negotiate.
Some contractors are to55ers as are some premies, that is their choice, the client has got the right to say bye, that is theirs.
You are being asked to provide a service for a length of time using the skills you can demonstrate, the market/agent/client indicates a rate, you decide if that is acceptable (or indicate a counter demand) and hopefully an agreement is reached.
Look at footy players (the ultimate contractors) supply/demand/percieved value determines the rate, supporters get emotional (no-one is worth that etc) but while the player benefits from the rate they don't set it.

I cant believe you're fighting for a contractors right to be a tosser
Good on ya like - I agree that all people have the choice to be whatever they want.

However.....what I was trying to get at was you're given a (for example) 3 months contract at £400 a day for providing a certain service. Why should you expect to increase it after that 3 months to £450 for providing exactly the same service?

Yes its a business negotiation, but surely you have to have a bit of ethics about you aswell?!! If we all kept upping our rates for no reason then suddenly companies would start thinking of alternatives. There has to be a balance.

And if you're bringing footballers into this, then quite frankly, the reason we're in such a bad state with footballers in this country (being utter cocks, getting paid stupid amounts of money, having attitude and not respecting managers/other player/fans, having one of the highest paid teams in the world who cant take a fricken penalty between them) is precisely BECAUSE the money situation has got completely out of hand.

[Shimano105]

Malvolio is spot on. Stop being such a prima donna for Christ's sake.

You SHOULD try and get the agency to lower their margins at renewal as they are effectively being paid for nothing at that stage, but make sure they don't try hassling the client for the wedge.

But the client shouldn't be held to ransom just because you did your job.

[Spacecadet]

as I posted in the other % rate rise thread:

If there is a risk to the agency that they might loose out if you don't renew... eg the agency was not the clients prefered agency then an extension means easy repeat business for them which they might not otherwise get. So an increase in your rate might just eat into their cut. Obviously though they'll try and pass that loss onto the client by charging more so the screws need to be applied from both ends

If you get on well with the client, advise them that you are keen for an extension but it depends on how negotiations go with the agency. Don't forget that most agency contracts will expressly forbid you talking about your rate with the client (and no doubt there is a similar clause in their contract)

As mentioned already, look for anything in your work load which is different from the original job spec. After 6 months you should have worked your charm on the company and a few more opportunities should have presented themselves.

Personally, in my current contract, I've been taken on for data warehouse building and data migration. However, reporting requirements are slowly creaping in as in house staff are either too busy are not up to the task. Once the original work is finished (which is scheduled for contract end) I'll be in a position to push for an extension (with raise) to build their reporting suite. If i'm stupid i'll sort out all their reporting requirements at the same time as building the DW and end up missing out on several extra billable months or on a potential rate raise.

[SallyAnne]

[QUOTE=Spacecadet]However, reporting requirements are slowly creaping in as in house staff are either too busy are not up to the task QUOTE]


.....what you need is a superb little reports developer who just happens to be finishing her gig today!