Lets hear it for the girls!

[SueEllen]

@SpontaneousOrder Dr Sue Black got into computer science after having her children. She's divorced because her ex-husband didn't want her studying.

She's famous for campaigning for Betchley to be preserved.

The reason why she is a feminist is because she found personally during her studies and later career that some men (and you sound like one of them with your post) can't cope with women in IT.

[SpontaneousOrder]

(and you sound like one of them with your post)

1) I know who she is... I was asking if it's true that Ada Lovelace invented the idea of programming? Rather than potentially having been the first person to actually write (or at least document) something resembling a computer program?

2) Regarding the bit I quoted - could you explain which bit of my post makes it sound like that? Or are you too one of the ones who uses lies and indirection to further an agenda while asserting that anyone who questions matters of fact is obviously a misogynist?

I mean, i actually stated very explicitly that I don't actually care in any practical sense - but was interested if her claim has any truth to it, because it sounds like bulltulip to me (and I don't want to be calling bulltulip on something that's actually true - because that would make me look daft).


As an aside, the joint primary reason I became a contractor was so that I can move about to different places to find the ones that have more women. I don't want the place I spend half of my waking life to be a sausage-fest.

[mudskipper]

1) I know who she is... I was asking if it's true that Ada Lovelace invented the idea of programming? Rather than potentially having been the first person to actually write (or at least document) something resembling a computer program?.

She is generally regarded as being more visionary than Babbage on the potential capabilities, for example seeing the potential of using numbers to represent other than quantity.

The notes for which she is famous are here

Sketch of The Analytical Engine

Their work was a collaboration, and ideas tend to feed ideas.

From my limited knowledge, it doesn't appear to be incorrect to regard her as the person who invented programming.

[SueEllen]

@SpontaneousOrder I answered your second point already. If you can't work out what part of your post sounds like that then go and get one your teenage daughters/nieces to explain it to you.

[Martin Scroatman]

Deniece Williams wasn't it?

[VectraMan]

I understood Babbage came up with the Difference and Analytical Engine but never saw it as anything other than a way of solving mathematical problems, and it was Ada Lovelace that realised it could be put to more general purpose use.

Reading the Wiki page it seems there's a lot of doubt:

In his 1970 Harvard University PhD thesis The Little Engines That Could've: The Calculating Machines of Charles Babbage, Bruce Collier, who went on to write a biography of Babbage, suggests:

Although it is clear that Lady Lovelace was a woman of considerable interest and talent, and it is clear that she understood to a very considerable degree Babbage's ideas about the general character and significance of the Analytical Engine, and expressed them well in her notes to Menabrea's paper, it is equally clear that the ideas were indeed Babbage's and not hers; indeed, she never made any claim to the contrary. She made a considerable contribution to publicizing the Analytical Engine, but there is no evidence that she advanced the design or theory of it in anyway.

Interesting though. She clearly made a pretty big mark on history.

[SueEllen]

There was a BBC 4 program on Ada Lovelace which probably is available on iPlayer, failing that on YouTube.

Ada apparently saw more uses for Babbage's machine and tried to get more funding for him to build an improved version. After the government refused because Babbage was a difficult character, she tried to raise the money by betting on horses but lost it all.

[SpontaneousOrder]

She is generally regarded as being more visionary than Babbage on the potential capabilities, for example seeing the potential of using numbers to represent other than quantity.

The notes for which she is famous are here

Sketch of The Analytical Engine

Their work was a collaboration, and ideas tend to feed ideas.

From my limited knowledge, it doesn't appear to be incorrect to regard her as the person who invented programming.

That's perhaps what I'm after (not read it yet) . Thanks.
I have a very young niece & a child sometime soon that has a roughly 50/50 chance of being female. I don't want him or her growing up in an environment where they are just a pip in a quota, or a pawn in someone's nihilistic ideology of equality of outcome. I want them both to grow up knowing who they are, in the world they are in, and to take what they want - regardless of anyone else's infantilising ideas of what they think they should or shouldn't have.

Sue Black's rants regarding thing like Carol Bartz at Yahoo, etc, make me sick of it all and naturally suspicious. I don't feel bad about being prejudiced towards feminists with short red/blue hair in the same way I don't feel bad but being prejudiced towards young hoodies down dark alleys. But I'd prefer to know, where I can, if it's justified in individual cases.

[mudskipper]

That's perhaps what I'm after (not read it yet) . Thanks.
I have a very young niece & a child sometime soon that has a roughly 50/50 chance of being female. I don't want him or her growing up in an environment where they are just a pip in a quota, or a pawn in someone's nihilistic ideology of equality of outcome. I want them both to grow up knowing who they are, in the world they are in, and to take what they want - regardless of anyone else's infantilising ideas of what they think they should or shouldn't have.

Sue Black's rants regarding thing like Carol Bartz at Yahoo, etc, make me sick of it all and naturally suspicious. I don't feel bad about being prejudiced towards feminists with short red/blue hair in the same way I don't feel bad but being prejudiced towards young hoodies down dark alleys. But I'd prefer to know, where I can, if it's justified in individual cases.

I have no idea what rants etc. you are on about - I simply don't follow the antics of people who wind me up.

Whether or not she "deserves" the title, I am wondering why the validity of claims made about Lovelace's contribution should be subject to more scrutiny than any other from the time? It may not be your intention, but it does come across as if you think the fact that she is a woman makes her less credible. There are plenty of examples of rose tinted hindsight when looking at the achievements from that age of discovery.

[SimonMac]

Given that there are far more men than women in IT, I'm guessing the % of code by women is small.

I attended a Microsoft web developers day last month - in a room of around 50 people, there were two women. On the plus side, there was no queue for the ladies

You used that joke at the time, got a similar reaction that time too