The Tories have 'killed buy-to-let for the middle-classes'

[AtW]

I saw what looked like an authoritative article on this, but I can't find it now. So you may be right.

But do you _know_ you are right, or are you just guessing?

I do know because no such agreement would have been possible in EU, or even made any sense, and in any case I know that some states with a lot of gold reserves did not sell it (Germany).

[AtW]

There was a dividend tax under Labour, just not any extra if you weren't a higher rate tax payer. Of course under the Labour government of the late 1970's we had a high rate of tax of 83% and investment income surcharge (dividend tax) of 15% giving a top rate of 98% !!

Oh yes, there was dividend tax, just a LOT less then it will be next year, and I don't even mean 45% band! In fact under Osborne dividends will be taxed more than even they were for 50% band under Labour!

70s stuff is irrelevant to current situation.

Labour would not need to tax as much as Tories because they planned to cut deficit slower - that would have required lower tax increases, the main thing they had was 50% tax which would still be less than current hikes under fooking Tory scum.

[AtW]

Sadly the middle income are always going to end up paying for over spending. The lower income group do not earn enough, and certainly contribute less due to the tax cuts the Tories have brought in, the high income groups, well there are not enough of them to make much difference.

Yes, I do think a Labour government would increase taxes further, I thought that was my main point all along!

No, the main point is that one party will cut taxes and the other will increase. That balances itself out over long term. However what we have here is total BS - supposedly pro-business party is introducing much higher taxes which were not even mentioned in manifesto, very short term attitude too, then Labour gets in and hikes taxes further - fooking Osborne cut down corp tax and now took even more money with higher dividend tax, so you can damn sure under Labour corp tax will go back to 25-30% and dividend tax now can be easily aligned with income tax rates. So Osborne created platform for future Labour Govt to do another massive increase in taxation.

[Waldorf]

Oh yes, there was dividend tax, just a LOT less then it will be next year, and I don't even mean 45% band! In fact under Osborne dividends will be taxed more than even they were for 50% band under Labour!

70s stuff is irrelevant to current situation.

Labour would not need to tax as much as Tories because they planned to cut deficit slower - that would have required lower tax increases, the main thing they had was 50% tax which would still be less than current hikes under fooking Tory scum.

The new dividend tax is 7.5% on dividends over £5K upto the higher rate band, 32.5% over this upto the Additional rate band and 38.1% over £150K. The current effective rates are 0%, 25% & 30.6%, so clearly an increase of 7.5% across the board. Not sure what band you are comparing but the effective rate when we had the 50% rate was 36.1%.

70's stuff is very relevant to Corbyn and his Trot friends.

Osborne effectively followed Alastair Darlings plan, ie to half the deficit in 5 years!

You fall into the gutter with your fellow socialists when you use abusive terms, it is not necessary with intelligent people.

[Zero Liability]

You infer he's a socialist from wanting lower taxes/less spending? My "beef" with the Tories is that they have nothing to do with the free market ideals to which they give lip service. Both parties seem to like cronyism and little else.

[AtW]

The new dividend tax is 7.5% on dividends over £5K upto the higher rate band, 32.5% over this upto the Additional rate band and 38.1% over £150K. The current effective rates are 0%, 25% & 30.6%, so clearly an increase of 7.5% across the board. Not sure what band you are comparing but the effective rate when we had the 50% rate was 36.1%.

36.1% was better than 38.1%!!! And it was Tories who said they were against 50% tax and later blaimed LibDems that they could not cut it below 45%, and now they are in power and they have not even done that! They did not even remove crazy loss of personal allowance which puts some people into 60% tax band. They claimed they won't put up NICs but they've introduced new 0.5% NIC on large companies, fooking liars and thiefs, new pension tax on all companies (auto enrollment) is effectively increased in both Employee and Employer NICs

You fall into the gutter with your fellow socialists when you use abusive terms, it is not necessary with intelligent people.

Oh I am sorry, I did not get the chance to study at Eton ...

<------------------- at least I am cleared to use word twat, because Prime Minister himself used it, so that's ok - he is not a socialist

[SueEllen]

It's such a shame that neither the Tories nor their 'opposition' can grasp that.

How do you bribe voters then?

[Zero Liability]

The old fashioned way - with their own money.

Of course, coin clipping goes back centuries, so maybe currency debasement is the true old fashioned way.

Part of it is down to a lack of credible alternatives to either party, part of it down to a hope that people's memories are short, which seems to be the case.

[AtW]

How do you bribe voters then?

Subsidized organic wallnuts for squirrel feeding!

[Waldorf]

36.1% was better than 38.1%!!! And it was Tories who said they were against 50% tax and later blaimed LibDems that they could not cut it below 45%, and now they are in power and they have not even done that! They did not even remove crazy loss of personal allowance which puts some people into 60% tax band. They claimed they won't put up NICs but they've introduced new 0.5% NIC on large companies, fooking liars and thiefs, new pension tax on all companies (auto enrollment) is effectively increased in both Employee and Employer NICs

I have never said I want higher spending and higher taxes, I want a smaller state, lower taxes and government only doing the essential bits. However I do believe that a Labour government would follow history and spend more, tax more and borrow more.

I hate to see a Tory government increasing taxes but they are limited to what they can do, a small majority, taking on huge deficit and economic mess from a Labour government and a general public who objects to any cuts, means that some taxes will increase.

Tory governments mean lower taxes than the alternative, not that they will not increase taxes, being responsible means that sometimes taxes will rise, however as soon as they can taxes will be cut, a Labour government would choose to increase spending. Socialists believe they can spend your money better than you, Tories give you the choice.