Michelle Obama visits School n London

[wonderboy]

The White faces are in the background.

Talking to my younger family members those White faces are very likely to be of Irish, Welsh, Polish or Hungarian descent. White English kids tend to live and go to school in the Home counties not in inner London.

There will also be mixed race kids in the picture but you won't be able to tell, and yes some will be Muslim.

Also immigration policy hasn't failed.

East London is an area where recent arrivals to London or the UK move to. Once the people and families get more established they move to a different area of London or the Home counties. This movement has been going on for centuries and have included groups like Jewish refugees and Huguenots.

Whether there are two, three or four white faces in the background is irrelevant.

Colour and faith are irrelevant. Immigration is an awesome force for good.

No, the ONLY thing that matters is integration.

And as the photographs from Michelle Obama's visit to London demonstrates, integration isn't happening.

When the Jewish refugees and Huguenots arrived it wasn't at the rate of 340,000 every year (and that's net; over 600,000 gross).

Again, immigrants are wonderful, but I ask you the question: can 340,000 (600,000 depending on how you look at it) people from different cultures be integrated into another culture successfully every year without problems? UKIP got 40% of the vote of Labour, so clearly a sizeable portion of the population believes there to be a problem.

I have canvassed and spoken to "ordinary people" of all political persuasions and from all walks of life, and those older than around 55 do not recognise the country and feel deeply unhappy (some with a sense betrayal) at the pace of immigration and the resulting effect on society.

Their perception may be based in fact, fiction, prejudice or bias; it may not fit with your view of a desirable world; but their opinions should be considered regardless, because they have spent their lives contributing to the country, some have fought for it, and the vast majority of situations are analogue and not digital (meaning they might (just might) be as "right" about the situation as you are).

Immigration policy (or lack thereof) is a large part of the problem. There are a large number of other contributory factors.

[SueEllen]

There lies the difference - I'm younger than 55, I was born in London, I've lived in London most of my life and my neighbours aren't homogenous. Most don't even come from homogenous families regardless of their roots.

Old people have always feared immigrants and complained about being "swamped" regardless of the numbers and where they have come from. Newspaper archives show this.

Oh how do you know those kids and their families in that school haven't integrated? You can't tell by looking at the kids who they mix with and who their neighbours are. You also don't know how school places where allocated and who applied for those places. Though as it's a single sex girls school it's not surprising there are a lot of Muslim girls.

[wonderboy]

There lies the difference - I'm younger than 55...

Oh, I'm 34. You don't address the point that I make that these people's voices should be heard, regardless of your perception of their authenticity or "correctness". The fact that old people have always feared immigration (your assertion, not mine) does not detract from the fact that these people's voices' should be heard.

"Old" people, as you so dismissively call them are the people who have contributed the most to the nation and who often both need the support of the nation the most and have the most to contribute based on their experience.

Oh how do you know those kids and their families in that school haven't integrated?

Because of the photo?

I might add that integration goes both ways of course. Middle-class white people clearly haven't integrated with the catchment area of that school.

But as I said before, race, gender and nationality matter nothing (although you keep banging on about your heterogenous roots and your neighbours).

Serving the interests of the electorate matters, and from a migration point of view, that hasn't happened since at least the 2004 accession of the eastern-block to the EU, and asylum policies left wide open to abuse since the arrival of New Labour.

[minestrone]

The White faces are in the background.

Talking to my younger family members those White faces are very likely to be of h descent. White English kids tend to live and go to school in the Home counties not in inner London.

There will also be mixed race kids in the picture but you won't be able to tell, and yes some will be Muslim.

Also immigration policy hasn't failed.

East London is an area where recent arrivals to London or the UK move to. Once the people and families get more established they move to a different area of London or the Home counties. This movement has been going on for centuries and have included groups like Jewish refugees and Huguenots.

There is one white child in the picture and rather than attribute the fact that child might be English you seem to think that they are most likely "Irish, Welsh, Polish or Hungarian".

You also repeatedly capitalised white as a description of the child's race. "The White faces", "those White faces".

You are not too clever are you Sue?

[Flashman]

I'm sure I remember growing up back in the 1980's being told that all the immigrants would integrate eventually.

Don't really hear that anymore.

[FatLazyContractor]

FAO - NAT

How exactly isn't this a racist thread? You have banned someone a few months ago for highlighting a few Asian sounding names.

Do I sniff double standards?

[darmstadt]

Copycats....

[SunnyInHades]

Scene: Outside the Bank Of England, London, 1900



John: "Do you want to see 115 years into the future ? - a photo showing the pupils of a London school being visited by the wife of the American President"
Dave: "Yes please"
John: "Here you go..."




Dave: "WTF?"

[darmstadt]

Scene: Outside the Bank Of England, London, 1900



John: "Do you want to see 115 years into the future ? - a photo showing the pupils of a London school being visited by the wife of the American President"
Dave: "Yes please"
John: "Here you go..."

Dave: "WTF?"

In 1901 the proportion of Londoners born elsewhere was 33% of the total and that was less than previous years. Your Dave and John could well have been an Irishman and a Jew. BTW, It has been estimated that one in five Britons has a black ancestor from the 17th or 18th centuries.

[Gumbo Robot]

In 1901 the proportion of Londoners born elsewhere was 33% of the total and that was less than previous years. Your Dave and John could well have been an Irishman and a Jew. BTW, It has been estimated that one in five Britons has a black ancestor from the 17th or 18th centuries.

I don't think that's the point though is it?

Jewish people have integrated into society & even where they haven't their populations live side by side with others and don't try to impose on the larger community & where there has been antagonism it has come from the "host" population.

Think it's a bit more of a 2 way street where Tower Hamlets & Rotherham etc are concerned.