Salmond "We can take Scotland in two weeks"

[JustinTime]

Probably best to ignore most of what Scooterscot says, as you rightly point out, he doesn't even have a vote.

For some people, me included, it's not really about the above. it's about having the opportunity for your country to vote in it's own government, always get the government it votes for and at least have an outside chance of having a government which has it's citizens interests at heart. There is zero chance of any of that in Westminster (if you live in Scotland).

In may be worth mentioning that almost 40% of Scottish voters did get the government that they voted for... Or rather a collation thereof.

2010 United Kingdom general election results in Scotland - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

[scooterscot]

Probably best to ignore most of what Scooterscot says, as you rightly point out, he doesn't even have a vote.

For some people, me included, it's not really about the above. it's about having the opportunity for your country to vote in it's own government, always get the government it votes for and at least have an outside chance of having a government which has it's citizens interests at heart. There is zero chance of any of that in Westminster (if you live in Scotland).

The vote should be nothing more than about people who live and work in Scotland. They all have a vested interest in making the country as successful as possible, and though we may disagree on how this is achieved, I'm pleased we can openly discuss and communicate peacefully, the best way to take our nation forward.

[TestMangler]

In may be worth mentioning that almost 40% of Scottish voters did get the government that they voted for... Or rather a collation thereof.

2010 United Kingdom general election results in Scotland - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

So, you think that 19% voting Lib Dem and 17% voting Tory equates to 40% voting for a Tory/Lib coalition ?

[JustinTime]

So, you think that 19% voting Lib Dem and 17% voting Tory equates to 40% voting for a Tory/Lib coalition ?

I think that you forgot to read the "almost 40%" bit before puffing you're blow-hole... If you can play fast and loose with the numbers, then so can I.

[Goatfell]

I think that you forgot to read the "almost 40%" bit before puffing you're blow-hole... If you can play fast and loose with the numbers, then so can I.

So almost two-thirds didn't then?

[JustinTime]

So almost two-thirds didn't then?

Yes. That would be correct. But this whole "scotland (sic) will get the government that it wants" is bollocks. People get the government that the majority of voters - as opposed to the majority of the electorate - want; such is democracy. If people want better government, then they need to elect better politicians. Just ticking the box for the monkey with the right colour rosette gets us nowhere... A government of ex-sweetie-shop owners, ex-teachers, and ex-trades union shop stewards, led by - maybe - one, or two ex-lawyers... That's just ****ed.

And independence will not solve that.

[Old Greg]

Yes. That would be correct. But this whole "scotland (sic) will get the government that it wants" is bollocks. People get the government that the majority of voters - as opposed to the majority of the electorate - want; such is democracy. If people want better government, then they need to elect better politicians. Just ticking the box for the monkey with the right colour rosette gets us nowhere... A government of ex-sweetie-shop owners, ex-teachers, and ex-trades union shop stewards, led by - maybe - one, or two ex-lawyers... That's just ****ed.

And independence will not solve that.

“I come in peace,” it said, adding after a long moment of further grinding, “take me to your Lizard.”

Ford Prefect, of course, had an explanation for this, as he sat with Arthur and watched the nonstop frenetic news reports on television, none of which had anything to say other than to record that the thing had done this amount of damage which was valued at that amount of billions of pounds and had killed this totally other number of people, and then say it again, because the robot was doing nothing more than standing there, swaying very slightly, and emitting short incomprehensible error messages.

“It comes from a very ancient democracy, you see…”

“You mean, it comes from a world of lizards?”

“No,” said Ford, who by this time was a little more rational and coherent than he had been, having finally had the coffee forced down him, “nothing so simple. Nothing anything like so straightforward. On its world, the people are people. The leaders are lizards. The people hate the lizards and the lizards rule the people.”

“Odd,” said Arthur, “I thought you said it was a democracy.”

“I did,” said ford. “It is.”

“So,” said Arthur, hoping he wasn’t sounding ridiculously obtuse, “why don’t the people get rid of the lizards?”

“It honestly doesn’t occur to them,” said Ford. “They’ve all got the vote, so they all pretty much assume that the government they’ve voted in more or less approximates to the government they want.”

“You mean they actually vote for the lizards?”

“Oh yes,” said Ford with a shrug, “of course.”

“But,” said Arthur, going for the big one again, “why?”

“Because if they didn’t vote for a lizard,” said Ford, “the wrong lizard might get in. Got any gin?”

“What?”

“I said,” said Ford, with an increasing air of urgency creeping into his voice, “have you got any gin?”

“I’ll look. Tell me about the lizards.”

Ford shrugged again.

“Some people say that the lizards are the best thing that ever happened to them,” he said. “They’re completely wrong of course, completely and utterly wrong, but someone’s got to say it.”

[TestMangler]

Yes. That would be correct. But this whole "scotland (sic) will get the government that it wants" is bollocks. People get the government that the majority of voters - as opposed to the majority of the electorate - want; such is democracy. If people want better government, then they need to elect better politicians. Just ticking the box for the monkey with the right colour rosette gets us nowhere... A government of ex-sweetie-shop owners, ex-teachers, and ex-trades union shop stewards, led by - maybe - one, or two ex-lawyers... That's just ****ed.

And independence will not solve that.

No, but it will mean that the Scottish government is elected by the people in that country, and not the 90% of the UK that don't live in Scotland.

Do you not think that voters in every country would like to see their government voted in by their people ? England included.

What you say about the types of people we elect is 100% correct, but it's a totally different argument.

If there was a question on your ballot paper for 'No knob-ends allowed in the house' I think most people would tick it.

[Goatfell]

Yes. That would be correct. But this whole "scotland (sic) will get the government that it wants" is bollocks. People get the government that the majority of voters - as opposed to the majority of the electorate - want; such is democracy. If people want better government, then they need to elect better politicians. Just ticking the box for the monkey with the right colour rosette gets us nowhere... A government of ex-sweetie-shop owners, ex-teachers, and ex-trades union shop stewards, led by - maybe - one, or two ex-lawyers... That's just ****ed.

And independence will not solve that.

I'd rather have people who've had experience of real jobs, who've worked for a living rather than the usual Westminster bunch, career politicians. Personally they should be kept as far away from government as possible.

If you really believed what you write then I think you'd have to agree that Westminster is never going to deliver that, independence might.

[Old Greg]

No, but it will mean that the Scottish government is elected by the people in that country, and not the 90% of the UK that don't live in Scotland.

Do you not think that voters in every country would like to see their government voted in by their people ? England included.

What you say about the types of people we elect is 100% correct, but it's a totally different argument.

If there was a question on your ballot paper for 'No knob-ends allowed in the house' I think most people would tick it.

And I think this is the strongest argument for independence and why it's probably the best answer for you. But there needs to be some serious expectation management because it's going to be a bumpy ride. Funnily enough scooterscot has it about right. Accept that the currency isn't the main thing, or EU membership and that there are risks in these areas, but that at least as a nation you control your own destiny.

I'm just glad I got in at 5/2 yesterday. And it's fun watching the Westminster political class panic as the country lurches into a constitutional crisis.