What If Agency Doesn't Agree to Amend the Contract?

[TestMangler]

[QUOTE=cupidstunt;1347320]Yes you are wrong.[/QUOTE

How is he wrong ?

If the contract failed a review, it automatically makes it difficult to defend.

The only thing it gives him is that someone else will do the defending, but if a specialist IR35 contract review fails his contract, then how are Accountax/Lawspeed going to easily defend it ? The one thing that would help could be that the fact that he's being defended by professionals may put HMRC off so it's not a complete waste of money, but niether is it a good starting point.

[SueEllen]

My contract is with the agency not the client. The client has already signed my weekly timesheets and have sent them to the agency to be paid.

The issue is you started work.

You should never start work until the contract is agreed. Your contract is with the agent not the client.

The agent now has no reason to negotiate with you over the contract as the you started work and they can pay you, fully knowing even if you don't agree with the contract that's the contract that will be used to sort out disputes regardless of whether you or they sign it or not.

Agents and direct clients more quickly agree to reasonable changes if you don't start work.

When you're given a job offer; would you just accept whatever contract is given to you immediately or you'll get it checked against IR35, etc?!

You sound like you just sign whatever is given to you! don't think that's the best practice, is it?

Some people have been contracting long enough to know when to get a contract reviewed and when not to bother as some agencies do use contracts that are the same as the PCG templates.

[Dynamic]

The issue is you started work.

You should never start work until the contract is agreed. Your contract is with the agent not the client.

Not sure how long you will stay out of contract with this thought? how to handle when immediate start is required?

I was offered the contract on 2nd to start on 3rd. I confirmed in email that I can start the work but only on the condition that we agree on the terms of the contract so...

The agency sent me the contract on 13th (after 10 days; so they were late themselves initially). I got it reviewed and got the result on 16th...

[cupidstunt]

How is he wrong ?

If the contract failed a review, it automatically makes it difficult to defend.

Well I think there is still a point to having the insurance. Yes it might be difficult to defend but having lawyers to defend you up to a value of 75k doesn't make the insurance pointless.

[SueEllen]

Not sure how long you will stay out of contract with this thought? how to handle when immediate start is required?

Contract reviews can be done in 24 hours.

Even clients who want immediate starts can and will wait 2 days for contracts to be sorted. It's always worth getting client details at interview in case of this situation if going through an agency. (Often the agency says something but when you talk to the client they say something else.)

If an agent or direct client wants an immediate start and won't email over a copy of the contract terms within a couple of hours of your acceptance subject to contract then I wouldn't trust them.

The only agency that wanted me to start the next day used a PCG contract template. Direct clients have wanted me to start the next day and I've learnt now to refuse until the contract is reviewed as it's not only IR35 clauses that can screw you. For example a simple thing like not putting an address on a clause can cause problems.

[TykeMerc]

If I was an insurer and it came out that the contract had failed an IR35 review then I certainly wouldn't honour any insurance policy taken out unless I was told up front about the failure. I'd charge a LOT for the policy if told up front.

[Wanderer]

Not sure how long you will stay out of contract with this thought? how to handle when immediate start is required?

Why does it take more than 24 hours for an agency to knock out a contract though? That's ridiculous. It's not rocket science.

Starting work without a contract is bad business in my opinion because it leaves you in a very weak position when it comes to negotiating and it also means that the agency can mess about as long as they like preparing or arguing over the contract terms.

If a client/agency wanted me to start immediately I'd get a bullet proof IR35 contract template from the PCG, fill in the blanks, sign it and send it to the agency. If they give me the go ahead to start working then that's the contract. If they want to vary it then that's open to negotiation.

If they reject the contract then they have to produce one of their own before I start work.

[Dynamic]

Contract reviews can be done in 24 hours.

If an agent or direct client wants an immediate start and won't email over a copy of the contract terms within a couple of hours of your acceptance subject to contract then I wouldn't trust them.

If the agency doesn't agree on using a PCG contract template or applying all the changes requested after a contract review by a professional. What would you do?

Walk a way - rejecting the offer? or just signing it and starting the work!

Rejecting the offer would be very difficult if it has been weeks you were looking for a contract.

difficult choice, isn't it?

On the other hand, you could argue that if they really want me to work for them, they'll be willing to change the contract or accepting the PCG contract template. considering this competitive market, they could quickly bring someone else?

[MarillionFan]

If the agency doesn't agree on using a PCG contract template or applying all the changes requested after a contract review by a professional. What would you do?
Walk a way - rejecting the offer? or just signing it and starting the work!
Rejecting the offer would be very difficult if it has been weeks you were looking for a contract.
difficult choice, isn't it?
On the other hand, you could argue that if they really want me to work for them, they'll be willing to change the
contract or accepting the PCG contract template. considering this competitive market, they could quickly bring someone else?

Never start a contract without a signed contract if you don't like it.

If the agency won't amend to an IR35 'friendly' contract and you're not happy then you either walk away or you accept. If you accept you decide whether you feel its inside or outside and also decide whether you want to pay full tax or not.

So it's all down to you my friend, but as you've already started then it means you've accepted the terms.

[SueEllen]

If the agency doesn't agree on using a PCG contract template or applying all the changes requested after a contract review by a professional. What would you do?

Walk a way - rejecting the offer? or just signing it and starting the work!

Rejecting the offer would be very difficult if it has been weeks you were looking for a contract.

difficult choice, isn't it?

Nope.

All the agencies I've dealt with have been in London and the SE so if the agent makes up an excuse why they can't email a copy of the contract over I tell them I'm coming over to pick it up.

So in theory I could spend 2.5 hours to go and get the contract but the only agency who tried that trick on with me was less then 5 miles from where I live in London.

On the other hand, you could argue that if they really want me to work for them, they'll be willing to change the contract or accepting the PCG contract template. considering this competitive market, they could quickly bring someone else?

It's always been an extremely competitive market for agents so yes while they could get someone else in they risk annoying the client who being fed up of having to go through the interview process again will drop the agent.

Also you tend to find that while the agent wants you there tomorrow the actual end-client doesn't mind waiting a couple of days.

So if you have to negotiate the contract the client is actually understanding.

Now you are stuck in a situation where because you are on-site the agent doesn't have to negotiate.

Turning the tables around if you were on-site with a contract you and the agent agreed to before you went on-site, and the agent wanted to change a term to your detriment would you allow them to do it?