Opt out of Conduct of employment agencies 2003 act?

[psychocandy]

The opt out must be done "before the introduction or supply", in your scenario you would be both introduced and supplied by the agency so there is absolutely no way for you to opt out.

It might make the agency feel better if you did sign an opt out later but it's worthless under law. That won't stop them trying to use the (invalid) opt out against you in the event of a dispute, it's incredible how they conveniently fail to understand the law when it suits them to do so and I really can't accept that they don't understand the law.

Yeh. Good point. The agency trying to get me to sign an opt out 8 weeks into contract aint going to make any difference is it?

[craig1]

Interestingly on this subject, a friend was just telling me that he got an offer yesterday following an interview. The agent emailed him the draft contract almost immediately and this had a "client requirement" that he opt-out. When he challenged this, he was told that he wouldn't be allowed to start until he signed the opt-out form and that this was a mandatory requirement from the client. No opt-out and they'd go to the runner-up candidate.

He'd taken the business cards of the people interviewing and called them this morning to find out more. After some digging, they came back to him and told him that the people who deal with the contractor and agency relationships couldn't care about the issue as it's a contractor to agency contract thing.

Agency still refuses to budge and has made it clear that no opt-out = no contract.

He is going ahead with the contract but, on advice from his contract reviewer solicitor, has annotated the bottom of the opt-out section that the opt-out is invalid as he has already been "introduced".

As an intellectual exercise: If he refused to sign and lost the contract to someone who would sign, what are his options? I know that those opting-in should not be discriminated against but is it a civil court matter where he'd have to sue?

[psychocandy]

Interestingly on this subject, a friend was just telling me that he got an offer yesterday following an interview. The agent emailed him the draft contract almost immediately and this had a "client requirement" that he opt-out. When he challenged this, he was told that he wouldn't be allowed to start until he signed the opt-out form and that this was a mandatory requirement from the client. No opt-out and they'd go to the runner-up candidate.

He'd taken the business cards of the people interviewing and called them this morning to find out more. After some digging, they came back to him and told him that the people who deal with the contractor and agency relationships couldn't care about the issue as it's a contractor to agency contract thing.

Agency still refuses to budge and has made it clear that no opt-out = no contract.

He is going ahead with the contract but, on advice from his contract reviewer solicitor, has annotated the bottom of the opt-out section that the opt-out is invalid as he has already been "introduced".

As an intellectual exercise: If he refused to sign and lost the contract to someone who would sign, what are his options? I know that those opting-in should not be discriminated against but is it a civil court matter where he'd have to sue?

Ooh. Thats naughty. Would be interested to know how this turns out. I always thought they werent allowed to discriminate but I guess the reality is whether you're able to do anything about it.

[SueEllen]

As an intellectual exercise: If he refused to sign and lost the contract to someone who would sign, what are his options? I know that those opting-in should not be discriminated against but is it a civil court matter where he'd have to sue?

I guess so but you would have to be willing to move out of the UK or change careers as no case has gone all the way to court, and someone in the Media would be interested.

I think the Department of Business, Innovation and Skills is suppose to deal with this. But I expect you would get no help from them unless the Media took it up with them.

[Wanderer]

Agency still refuses to budge and has made it clear that no opt-out = no contract.

Wow, that is pretty brazen. I'll bet you the agent didn't do that in writing. What they are doing is illegal, though that won't make any difference to these unscrupulous agents. Can you tell us who it is? Are they a member of any professional body REC or APSCo? I would make a formal complaint if they were. Certainly, I would make it clear to the agency that they were acting illegally.

As an intellectual exercise: If he refused to sign and lost the contract to someone who would sign, what are his options? I know that those opting-in should not be discriminated against but is it a civil court matter where he'd have to sue?

If someone really had an appetite for a fight then they could sign the contract and send it to the agency along with a letter withdrawing the opt out.

The agency will probably say that the contract offer has been withdrawn, in which case you would make it plain to them that you would like to know why and you are going to discuss the situation with the client, along with the agency trying to bully you into signing away your legal rights. Gather your evidence very carefully (keep everything in writing, Cc: your solicitor) and you may even have enough evidence to bring legal action against the agency for breach of contract.

It would start a massive tulip fight though and if the introduction has been made then the consensus is that the opt out is invalid anyway so one would have to consider if it's worth starting a fight over. Catch me in a bad mood and I'd start a fight over it.

[craig1]

Wow, that is pretty brazen. I'll bet you the agent didn't do that in writing. What they are doing is illegal, though that won't make any difference to these unscrupulous agents. Can you tell us who it is? Are they a member of any professional body REC or APSCo? I would make a formal complaint if they were. Certainly, I would make it clear to the agency that they were acting illegally.

Quite a decent sized agency, which surprised me, and a REC member. I won't name as my friend is starting on Monday and would like to do so without making the relationship with the agent any more difficult!

[SueEllen]

Quite a decent sized agency, which surprised me, and a REC member. I won't name as my friend is starting on Monday and would like to do so without making the relationship with the agent any more difficult!

REC is as useful as the Press Complaints Commission.

[pongo]

Agency still refuses to budge and has made it clear that no opt-out = no contract.

Or, you could find another agency, explain the situation and ask them to make a deal with the client. Since nothing is signed, and clients work with multiple agencies, there will be no restriction on the client. And, for the new agency there is no effort, i.e. they will make money anyway. Maybe this is why agencies cannot really make a fuss - plenty of competition in the marketplace.

[psychocandy]

Or, you could find another agency, explain the situation and ask them to make a deal with the client. Since nothing is signed, and clients work with multiple agencies, there will be no restriction on the client. And, for the new agency there is no effort, i.e. they will make money anyway. Maybe this is why agencies cannot really make a fuss - plenty of competition in the marketplace.

But at the end of the day, you might be right legally but is it worth potentially losing a contract over?

[psychocandy]

OMG. My agency never gets the message....

I've been in contract now for three months and this is the 3rd email advising me that I have 'forgotten' to return the signed opt out form and please can I complete it. I've already told them twice that I dont intend to sign it....

And its totally invalid now anyway since its a long time since I was introduced to the client !!!